My Guitar Teacher and FRUSTRATION! What would you do?

Hello,
Don't know if I ever posted here before but here goes.

I love the instruction here at Guitartricks. I also take lessons at a music store.

I've been taking lessons from the same teacher for 2 years now.
When I started I asked if he could teach me Little Wing. He said absolutely not. He said I'm just not capable. Well of course he was right. But about 3 months ago he surprised me and said I was ready to do Little Wing. I was stoked. He can do it with his eyes closed probably, behind his back and with his feet, all at the same time, if he wanted to. O.K. a little exaggerated but you know the type.
So I get it down pretty good up to the Lyric part and he, out of nowhere, says we are changing direction. W T Fart!? I wanted him to teach me the WHOLE song. I was doing it just like Jimi. He says I don't need to learn it all. Just learn the chords to the song. Well, I know my chords.

So I spoke with the owner (who is absolutely humble and awesome at guitar) and said, Look, we are all men here. I said I don't want to hurt my teacher's feelings, he is awesome and all but . . . I want to know if you can be my teacher. He is booked solid because EVERYONE wants him. My friend, who used to take lessons from him, told me if I can get him that my playing would skyrocket. He said he will try to work me in when the new year comes.

O.K. sorry for the rant, but what would you guys/gals do? Should I just throw in the towel if the owner can't take me and just learn online? I think I am entering the stage of my music career where I just want to cry. Oh I love playing but the getting bounced around with lessons frustrates me.

Is it possible to get really professional at playing without one-on-one instruction?

Any help would be appreciated.

TK

Originally Posted by: TonyNun
Is it possible to get really professional at playing without one-on-one instruction?

Hi Tony! Yes, absolutely you can get really professional at playing without one-on-one instruction. I'm just going to go all in and give you my full honest opinion, then get back to your original question.

Two years of taking private lessons... that's a long time, and it sounds like there's been some good, and some not so good. Take a break. Go it alone for awhile and see how things go. Private lessons are expensive, so I'm sure you won't mind saving some of that money, and you can always go back if you need to.

What does "professional" mean to you? Playing "Little Wing" is a clear goal, but its not necessarily a step to becoming a "professional" guitar player. Hendrix by many definitions was not professional. He wasn't formally trained, and didn't read music, neither of which, really mattered in terms of his development and playing style. Its good to be really clear about what it is you want to be able to play, and why.

A while back we were talking in a thread about a TED Talks show where the guy was saying you can learn anything in about 20 hours. Much of it was some what flawed, but a good point I feel the speaker raised was learning just enough so that you could correct your own mistakes. I'll wager that you're already there in terms of learning "Little Wing" and that with the help of tablature you'll be able to figure it out on your own. It would be good ear training.

Video lessons like the ones on Guitar Tricks are excellent for people who already know how to play guitar and want to learn something new. For the year I was a full member, I went through Lisa McCormicks acoustic fingerpicking course, and it was great. I did learn how to play the theme song, and came up with a lot of my own ideas along the way. The nice thing with video lessons is you can go at your own pace, its available 24/7, you can rewind as much as you need to, and the instructor never has a bad day.

Books are also a great resource. There are lots of duds, but many good ones out there also. I use mainly MIT books, and rely on reviews to help determine which ones will work for what I want to learn. Combining a good book on a subject with videos lessons can be a very effective way of learning.

Getting back to your original question, absolutely, you can do it on your own, especially since you've already taken some lessons and have the basics down. Just be really clear about your goals, work towards them, and use effective learning materials and practice techniques to get there.

Hope that helps!

Hi TonyNun -

I'd worry about a teacher that is dictating to you which direction you are going in. As an adult student, you should have a big say in that. If your desire is to learn the entire song and he won't do that for you, certainly look elsewhere.

I agree with Slipin - take a break. I took private lessons for a little over a year and it eventually got to a point where I wasn't really getting much out of it. This was partly because of my instructor and partly because of my lack of motivation at the time.

If your desire is to take these skills you now have and learn some new songs and techniques, GuitarTricks is a great place. Little Wing is also in the song library here and is taught by one of my favorite instructors here - Anders. The song instructions do a FULL breakdown of the song - you'll learn rythm parts, lead parts, fill parts...everything! That's true for any song in the song library, not just Little Wing. I see you have full access, so you probably know this already.

What I like about these lessons is I don't have to feel self concious that I'm not getting it and need to repeat a section 10, 15, 20 times. I would get frustrated in my private lessons and ask to move on because I felt I had to work it out on my own and I was just digging myself into a hole.

Take that as far as you like and if you feel the need for private instruction again at some point, then find another teacher.

As far as what is required to be a "professional" guitarist, I don't see why you couldn't do it without private instruction. It would require discipline, but so do private lessons...

Let us know how things work out for you...

Thank you so much maggior and Slippin Lizzard (what a neat name!) for your very helpful encouragement.

I am so sensitive to others feelings (hard to believe being a man) that I feel like my teacher's feelings will be hurt. I'm sure he will feel like he failed in some way. But if I am going to go the direction I want to go, I gotta cut the strings to my teacher.

I don't know of any book that teaches what my teacher does. For instance, in learning Little Wing he first had me learn the chord progressions to the song and then showed me how Hendrix did all his stuff within those chord frames. If you know a book that teaches that, I'm all ears.

What I like doing is re-inventing songs my teacher teaches me like Hey Joe into more of a grungy/metal kind of song, go into practice and play it for my teacher MY WAY (after I learned it Hendrix's way). He just frowns and says "It's best to just play it the way the artist played it." He always seems to squash my artistic side. I'm sure Hendrix would not play it today the way he did in the 60's if he was still alive. It just seems he has no appreciation for what I want to do. Whenever I come in with a song I make up he just cranks up his guitar and plays what I made up with all these extravagant fills. It's almost like he's saying "You'll never be as good as me." He never says about the songs I make up: Hey, that's really nice.

Anyway, geesh, I feel like I'm an Eeyore. I hate cutting ties. But I gotta do what I gotta do. Man, I'm really down about this. But who knows, maybe this will be the best thing for me? Pray for me.

Originally Posted by: TonyNun
I don't know of any book that teaches what my teacher does. For instance, in learning Little Wing he first had me learn the chord progressions to the song and then showed me how Hendrix did all his stuff within those chord frames. If you know a book that teaches that, I'm all ears.

A lot of the instructors here do that. Especially Anders Mouridsen that is very good at teaching is material and making it stick in your head ( atleast for me :)) Wach his videos of voodoo child and little wing wich he approaches them the way you mentionned. I recommend you go trough his blues section lesson, very good !

As for your face to face teacher, I would also recommend you to follow your heart and make a choice that makes you happy...you cant go wrong with that :)

SebastBerg is right - you get the level of song instruction that you are looking for here. It's why I perfer to learn songs from instructional videos here rather than from TAB books. They cover the nuances and techniques to play the song. They also explain the theory behind what is being played and why it works.

Since your private instructor taught you Little Wing, go through that tutorial here (Anders teaches it) and you can do a direct comparison to make your judegment.

It sounds like you are torn - the guy is frankly being a bit of a jerk to you by squashing your creative side yet you are worried about hurting his feelings. Don't worry - I doubt he'll lost any sleep over it. It is certainly an uncomfortable situation - I've done it. You feel like you are breaking up with somebody. The sooner you break it off, the better.

My daughter stopped taking piano lessons after over 3 years with the same instructor. It was just time for her to stop and we found his teaching style just wasn't working for her any more. Yes it was uncomfortable, but we did it and moved on. We, including, my daughter have no regrets - it was the right thing for us to do.

Thanks so much guys for your input. I think it's time to move on. Yes, it is like breaking up. They say that breaking up is hard to do. It's tough, but he probably won't lose any sleep over it. There should be a song in there somewhere. :)

I have checked out the Little Wing instruction here and it is a little different than the way I was taught it. But he does it so righteously. It should be very easy to change it up.

Again, thanks so much for your input. I don't take these steps lightly in leaving.

Tony

Originally Posted by: TonyNun
I don't know of any book that teaches what my teacher does. For instance, in learning Little Wing he first had me learn the chord progressions to the song and then showed me how Hendrix did all his stuff within those chord frames. If you know a book that teaches that, I'm all ears.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a book is a substitute for a good teacher, but books can be just one of many resources that you can utilize. One of the things I think that you're potentially missing out on is the process of learning music by ear. Learning other people's songs is not much of a priority for me, but it sounds like learning Little Wing is important to you and that Hendrix is a strong influence.

There's a bunch of different goals & objectives that may be coming into play here, and could very easily be in conflict with each other. If you're learning Little Wing because you want to sound just like Hendrix, then you're guitar teacher is right, playing it the way he did is the way to go. But you've stated that you like to re-invent songs (I personally think that's a great idea!). In this case, learning the song note-for-note may not really be in the best interests of your goal. It might be far better to simply listen to the song and then create your own version, or original ideas after being influenced by Hendrix's playing.

Either way, you have to keep in mind that great guitar players like Hendrix and Page learned other people's songs in their formative years. However, from what I've read, they did it by listening to records, and then figuring it out for themselves, rather than having someone walk them through it chord by chord, note by note. It seems like a lot of iconic players tell the story of when they were young, being alone with their guitar, listening to albums and trying to play what they heard on those records. I think that can be a very important part of developing your ear, and also developing your own style.

Getting back to books... lets leave Hendrix out of it for a moment, and instead, lets say I go to your teacher and tell him I want to learn about modes. Now, I can just go to one guy, sit down for a half-hour or 45 min once a week, paying, what, $25, $30, or even $40 per lesson as he tries to teach me about modes. If there's something he thinks of that's an important point, he'll likely want to write it down, and may well do it during the lesson (of the half-dozen instructors I've gone to, EVERY one of them would write stuff out during the lesson). If I go home and forget something he mentioned, if I look at the paper and what he wrote out and don't understand it, I'll have to wait until the next lesson to go over it with him.

On the other hand, I could watch a video here where Christopher explains modes. If it clicks, but then I forget something, I could go back and watch it again. In conjunction, I can refer to Tom Kolb's book on modes, where he explains all of the seven modes of the major scale, has all the info, scales and examples written out and organized. Not only that, he includes a CD with riff examples played both at full and half speed, and then a backing track for each mode that I can jam along with so I get used to actually playing a mode and hearing how it sounds. I could get all that (one month membership here, plus the book) for less than the cost of one lesson with a guitar instructor. What's more, at least to me, following a pre-planned course on a subject is a far more efficient method than just asking a guitar teacher to come up with an on-the-spot game plan for learning modes.

That's just one example. All I'm getting at is be open to different sources, and be smart about your approach. It definitely sounds like you're not satisfied with your teacher, and a break might be advisable. I totally understand you being sensitive to his feelings. I've taught other stuff (not guitar) and the bond between teacher & student can be very strong. Every good teacher though should be teaching you so that eventually you will surpass the need for their instruction. Its a bit weird with guitar lessons sometimes... you just keep going back month after month, and start to wonder where its all going. That's why for me, personally, I'm much more of a fan of course study formats: This is what is being taught. This is what you will learn. This is what you will be able to do when you finish. If you can't answer all three of those questions when taking lessons, then something is wrong.

Originally Posted by: Slipin Lizard
Getting back to books... lets leave Hendrix out of it for a moment, and instead, lets say I go to your teacher and tell him I want to learn about modes. Now, I can just go to one guy, sit down for a half-hour or 45 min once a week, paying, what, $25, $30, or even $40 per lesson as he tries to teach me about modes. If there's something he thinks of that's an important point, he'll likely want to write it down, and may well do it during the lesson (of the half-dozen instructors I've gone to, EVERY one of them would write stuff out during the lesson). If I go home and forget something he mentioned, if I look at the paper and what he wrote out and don't understand it, I'll have to wait until the next lesson to go over it with him.

You brought up a point that I forgot that really frustrated me with private lessons - he didn't write everything down and it was more than likely that I would forget something we went over just by the time I drove home. It drove me NUTS. Or, I'd look at the tab and not be able to correlate it to what it should sound like since I had no audio to go along with it - TAB is great, but rhythm isn't part of the notation. Today I would probably bring my Tascam portable audio recorder to my lesson... One time he wrote down the tab of a solo he made up on the stop which made no sense to me whatsoever with no context once I got home. That's when I started wondering if this was really the right situation for me.

Everybody learns differently...some people are OK with the free-form-let's-see-where-this-goes attitude of some guitar teachers. Other's such as myself want a roadmap (curriculum) to say "here is where you are, here is where you want to go, and here is how we will get you there".

Just more stuff to think about and consider...like you needed more :-).

I always took my cell phone to my lesson and would record the important parts like how my teacher played some riffs etc. It really helped to go back to the video.

I almost called yesterday to quit my lessons. I hate having confrontations. I go through these thoughts like: what if the owner asks me why? Was there something wrong with the teacher? Are you nuts? Maybe if I just text them.

Originally Posted by: TonyNunI always took my cell phone to my lesson and would record the important parts like how my teacher played some riffs etc. It really helped to go back to the video.

I almost called yesterday to quit my lessons. I hate having confrontations. I go through these thoughts like: what if the owner asks me why? Was there something wrong with the teacher? Are you nuts? Maybe if I just text them.

If the owner asks why, just tell him you want to take a break. You already asked him if he has any openings, so he's probably going to know what the deal is. I honestly don't think it's going to be the confrontational situation that you think it will be. When my daughter decided she didn't want to do piano lessons any more, we had her write a letter because we thought it should come from her. A text is probably not a good idea...though perhaps it isn't too much different from a letter these days.

Even if you go into all of the gory details with the owner, I don't think it will be a problem. I'm sure this type of thing happens all of the time.

or if all else fails "baby on the way" will trump any & all objections! ;)

I Have To Diagree,jimi Hendrix Was A Professsional Player,he Got Paid For Playin Guitar,that Alone Makes Him A Pro.and The List Can Go On And On.i Really Dont Think You Have To Be Able To Read Music To Be A Pro.my Opinion.........happy Holidays

Well I finally did it. I called the music studio yesterday and told them I was going to go it alone for a while. I asked the owner to keep me in mind if anything opens up for him to teach me more. He said he would. It went really well. I've talked to him several times about this before. So I know it wasn't a shock to him. But still, I was worried he'd ask a bunch of questions. I don't like bad mouthing any teacher, unless of course he was the one I had as a kid in California. Now that teacher was a class A jerk! But I was willing to go through his harsh treatment of me in order to learn guitar. I finally quit him too :-)

But my teacher wasn't a jerk at the studio. He was really nice, too nice. I need someone who can teach me something and stick with it till I get it. I can't stand being jerked around from this to that to this to that.

Anyway, thanks for all your great input!

One of my first guitar teachers (though not for long) told me the second lesson in that he was going to teach me my style. What????

The instructor has to match you. Even if the nicest person, the style and direction has to meet you where you are.

My wife is starting to learn mandolin and had a teacher for a brief time but he would only focus on one thing the whole lesson, every lesson. He was trying to tach her a skill and that was good but after a few lessons, she had no idea why the discipline he was teaching was important. She'd ask where it applied and he wouldn't really say (it was a strumming pattern). So she stopped.

So, really....You have to get something out of it.

...and interesting that he wanted to have you 'stick with the artist's version'....Odd since Jimi made a career of not doing that...Hey Joe, All Along the Watchtower?

Originally Posted by: JeffS65
...and interesting that he wanted to have you 'stick with the artist's version'....Odd since Jimi made a career of not doing that...Hey Joe, All Along the Watchtower?

My point exactly. Oh, and Axe, I would say being a "professional" player does mean meeting a certain standard of playing ability, having various skill sets and essentially being someone that could be "hired" to perform a specific task. For example, being hired to come in to a studio and record a guitar track for a commercial. I consider someone like Hendrix an artist, rather than a "professional"...

There are many people out there that will give advice, like "learn music theory" "or "learn to read music", and would consider those skills a must in order to be a "professional" player. And yet, obviously, there are great, iconic players who did not possess those skills. Its a strange contradiction that we see a lot in guitar... where people may say "you need to play like this in order to be great", when, at the same time, the very people the student is influenced by not only didn't learn that way or those skills, but playing that way may be contrary to their true goal with guitar.

That's why my whole point with all this stuff is that you have to sit down, think about it, and decide what's really right for you. Once you've got that clear vision of the kind of guitar player you want to be, or even just a simple skill that you want to develop, its up to you to find the right methods of learning that work towards that goal. I feel its an ever on-going process. You're always periodically evaluating your playing, looking at your practice habits, and checking to see that its getting you to where you want to be.

Tony, good for you for standing up for yourself. I think you should try some online lessons and see how it goes. You might be surprised at your progress, and the cost can't be beat.

Originally Posted by: TonyNunWell I finally did it. I called the music studio yesterday and told them I was going to go it alone for a while. I asked the owner to keep me in mind if anything opens up for him to teach me more. He said he would. It went really well. I've talked to him several times about this before. So I know it wasn't a shock to him. But still, I was worried he'd ask a bunch of questions. I don't like bad mouthing any teacher, unless of course he was the one I had as a kid in California. Now that teacher was a class A jerk! But I was willing to go through his harsh treatment of me in order to learn guitar. I finally quit him too :-)

Good for you!!! I'm sure you are happy to have this behind you...and now you can move on.

It is absolutly possible to learn to play guitar by yourself. Everything i know how to play i have learned myself (ofcourse some videos online aswell from time to time)
If you work out the songs yourself, you might not learn them as fast as if someone is showing you how to play it. But think about it. Your ear is much more challenged, and you develop so much more when you use your ears.

What im trying to say is... Im pretty sure you sir, don't need a guitar teacher. You have been on that road way to long (2 years...). Go and explore yourself. Thats what i did.

Originally Posted by: caponi14
If you work out the songs yourself, you might not learn them as fast as if someone is showing you how to play it. But think about it. Your ear is much more challenged, and you develop so much more when you use your ears.

So much truth in what you said above.

Growing up my best friend and I at started playing guitar at about 13. He would sit and figure out stuff like the beginning to Batman or Bonanza or....

Now about 40 years later, if he can think of a song he can play it, same with most leads to go with the songs. I on the other hand, took lessons and played in a band before him, I was on stage several times before he ever hit the stage. But he can play me under the table in many ways.

Yes I still know him, we ended up marrying cousins, we still get together and jam.