Scales, My Journey, Where am I going?

I've been playing guitar for about 6-7 months now. I've made a ton of progress from this site, from playing with friends and youtube.

My fingers have thick pads for hours of playing, I have the hand strength and finesse for barre chords. I know enough to create some of my own songs/sounds mostly using chords as well as arpeggiating the chords so it's not monotonous. I have acoustic and electric guitars. I've learned a ton about my gear and how to get the sounds I want out of it.

That's all great stuff, but I've hit a wall. My experienced friends can't seem to help me all that much because they learned everything 10-30 years ago. They don't think about playing guitar...they just play it.

I need to learn scales. The obvious answer is hey go learn them, but they seem like a big mountain that i'm standing in front of needing to climb. I have no idea which ledge I should grab first.

To me scales look like random spots across the fret board that are connected at random. I do understand some music theory and why the notes mesh the way they do. My dad has a bachelors in music and is an avid pianist and he's been able to help me.

There's a billion different scales for so many genres. Im not entirely interested in the offbeat ones. I'm fine with that, but which one do I start with? Major? Minor? Pentatonic? Which one of them is going to take me the farthest. Which keys should I pick? Do people really memorize them all or is there some kind of trick to it? I don't have a clue where my time should be spent. Hey maybe I should be memorizing the notes on the fretboard before I continue.

I don't know where I'm going with my music. I think I want to have a band or at least a group of people I can play with regularly for fun. I wouldn't know what genre I would play as I pretty much love everything. There's hardly much of list of genres/sub-genres of music I don't like. I do know that ever since I picked up a guitar 7 months ago i've been obsessed and I love it. Maybe some of you could direct me.

Hey, there! First, congrats on accomplishing what you have. :) Next, glad to hear you want to keep improving!

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
I need to learn scales.

... which one do I start with? Major? Minor? Pentatonic? Which one of them is going to take me the farthest.
[/quote]
If you haven't already you should start in the Guitar Fundamentals 2 course. I cover scales from a total beginner perspective.

http://www.guitartricks.com/course.php?input=2

There are two parts to learning scales: physical & conceptual.

You need to learn the physical skill set of playing a series of one note at a time on the guitar in order to make single note melodic patterns (using scales of course!).

And you also need to understand how to use the pattern of a scale to create the sound you want. In GF 2 I start with the 2 most important scales: diatonic major & minor.

A great way to look at scales is that every other scale, from simple & widely used to complex & special purpose, is just some recombination of those basic scales. So you don't have to learn a billion scales. Just a few will take you very, very far!

The other thing to grasp is that scales & chords are just two different ways of playing the same thing: a group of notes on the guitar.

After you start getting the hang of the GF2 beginner scale exercises, then start to work on Anders's rock or blues courses. He does a great job of showing how to start making licks, riffs & melodies with very basic easy to understand scale patterns. And he uses chords often as a gateway into those ideas!

http://www.guitartricks.com/course.php?input=rock1
http://www.guitartricks.com/course.php?input=rock2

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
Hey maybe I should be memorizing the notes on the fretboard before I continue.

Yes, this is an absolute necessity! Start learning the notes of the fretboard immediately. If you already know how to name barre chords, then you've got a great start. Just use that knowledge to start working across to the other strings.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
I do know that ever since I picked up a guitar 7 months ago i've been obsessed and I love it. Maybe some of you could direct me.

That's wonderful! :) Try the advice & links above. Ask more if necessary & best of success!

Thanks so much for your suggestions! I'll head straight over to that section of the core learning system and see if it helps!

Originally Posted by: CSchlegel

A great way to look at scales is that every other scale, from simple & widely used to complex & special purpose, is just some recombination of those basic scales. So you don't have to learn a billion scales. Just a few will take you very, very far!

[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was hoping to hear! lol



[QUOTE=CSchlegel]

If you already know how to name barre chords, then you've got a great start. Just use that knowledge to start working across to the other strings.

Is that because of the placement of the root note?

You are welcome. Please ask more if necessary.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588Is that because of the placement of the root note?

Exactly. If you know the roots on the low E & A strings, then the rest is a matter of gradual extrapolation. It looks like a giant, overwhelming alphabet soup. :p But it's really very simple once you break the pattern into smaller chunks.

Here are the rules.

Low E string notes match high E.
Low E string notes match D string 2 frets up & B string 5 frets up.
A string notes match G string 2 frets up.

Low E to D & B example using notes e, f, g:

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-E-|-F-|---|-G-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
E ||-F-|---|-G-|---|---|---|---|---|---|

Low A to G example using notes a, b, c:

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-A-|---|-B-|-C-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
A ||---|-B-|-C-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

Map them out. One string at a time. Work on memorizing them a week at a time. Test yourself on the Fretboard Trainer. Have fun! :)

http://www.guitartricks.com/fretboardtrainer.php

Yeah that fretboard trainer is really nice. I think it's missing something though. It would be nice to be able to reduce the size of the area you are learning.

http://www.fachords.com/fretboard-cyber-trainer/


This is a really nice one, but the UI isn't as nice as GT's trainer. If the extra features were combined with the nice UI/layout I think you guys would have THE ultimate trainer.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
This is a really nice one, but the UI isn't as nice as GT's trainer. If the extra features were combined with the nice UI/layout I think you guys would have THE ultimate trainer.

That's a good idea! Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the tech crew.

And this is why I keep recommending GT to people!

Originally Posted by: CSchlegel

There are two parts to learning scales: physical & conceptual.

You need to learn the physical skill set of playing a series of one note at a time on the guitar in order to make single note melodic patterns (using scales of course!).

And you also need to understand how to use the pattern of a scale to create the sound you want. In GF 2 I start with the 2 most important scales: diatonic major & minor.

Okay so I can now fluidly play the c major scale from open string to the 7th fret :) I'm going to continue down the fretboard and learn it completely using the ultimate scale finder.

Your videos did an incredible job filling in the conceptual part of scales for me. Thanks for that! I now understand why once you learn C major the other ones are literally the exact same patterns, but moved over (X) frets.

I don't want to move on to the next part which is the a minor scale. Eventually I will learn that pattern, but I want to complete my competency with major scales first which is the physical part you spoke about. I can go up and down the frets in order. And as mesmerizing as that is with reverb and my delay pedal on :) I would like to learn some licks in c major for rock or blues. I really don't even have to be that picky. Any style of licks will do.

I looked it up using the search feature... "licks in c major" but nothing came up and I can't seem to find any in that specific key while looking through the lessons. I could youtube search demonstrations for this, but I've found that people will mix major and minor scales a lot. I want to work on a core foundation before I move on to embellishments and other ideas. I'm sure you stand behind your core system, but brains are wired many different ways and I feel this would be the best way for me to learn. Where should I look for learning some of these novice to intermediate licks in c major?

Hey, great progress! Glad my tutorials are helping.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588Where should I look for learning some of these novice to intermediate licks in c major?

1. Look in the course material. First up is GF2. Playing exercises that combine chords & scales are a helpful way to bridge those techniques & prepare you for doing it eventually in songs.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=426
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=427
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=428

The first one is in C major, but the others are in A major & minor. Still very useful stuff.

The Rock course does some very basic building of licks from scales & chord tones.

http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=20152 (& the whole tutorial)
http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=21274 (& the whole tutorial)

Those aren't in C major but the same concepts apply across the (fret)board.

The blues course shows some great major scale licks. BB King uses the major scale quite often as the basis for his leads.

http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=13476

2. Look in my tutorials. This one shows how to play some simple licks using the ideas of the C major scale in different ways.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=876
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1849
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1646
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1808

The last one uses some chromatic notes, but I clearly explain how to use C major as a visual reference point.

3. Play songs! The song Wild World has a big descending C major scale in between some chord strumming.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=913

BB King's Rock Me Baby in in C!

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1825

Hope this helps!

Here is my very simple question.....

the scale finder says "this" is pattern 1 and "this" is pattern 2.
Is that a hard and fast rule? To be "patten 1" you have to do exactly that pattern? If you just decided to play one or two notes in different places while doing "pattern 1" does that make it in-valid?
Because you can play the same note in different places then technically you can have a million (exaggeration) variations of a pattern....right?

Does that make any sense what I have asked? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: adir olf
the scale finder says "this" is pattern 1 and "this" is pattern 2.
Is that a hard and fast rule? To be "patten 1" you have to do exactly that pattern?[/quote]
No. There is no official standard to the numbering of the patterns. For example, the GF2 lessons & the scale finder were done as two separate projects for two different purposes, the pattern numbers do not match.

The project goal of the Scale Finder was to be a complete reference resource. Whereas, the goal of my GF2 scale tutorials is to teach the basic unit of the diatonic scale.

1. The Scale Finder regards "Pattern 1" as the pattern that places the root note on the low E string & played by the pinky, regardless of any other factor. Then, it covers all the strings & frets with notes from that scale in that position. Likewise for the other patterns: the goal is simply to cover the fretboard with the scale pattern.

2. In GF2, since I am teaching the basic concept of scales on a beginner level, I isolate just one octave of each scale & show a place to play it that relates closely to the basic chord it belongs to. Because you can play the same note in more than one place on the guitar, it was important to show three basic patterns of the major scale isolated in one octave. So, I simply numbered them in conceptual order of teaching.

Originally Posted by: adir olf
If you just decided to play one or two notes in different places while doing "pattern 1" does that make it in-valid?
[/quote]
Not at all. As long as you are getting the right sound from the notes you are playing it is perfectly valid.

Any given scale is identified by two pieces of info: it's root note and it scale formula. We start with it's root note, anywhere you can find it on any given instrument.

For example, the C major scale can be played starting on the note C, anywhere you can find it on the guitar. There are lots of places to play the note C on the guitar and, therefore all of them are valid places to start playing the C major scale. Then we follow with the scale formula and get the notes D, E, F, G, A & B. And place them anyway on the guitar you can find them.
[QUOTE=adir olf]
Because you can play the same note in different places then technically you can have a million (exaggeration) variations of a pattern....right?

It does seem like that. :p Not a million, but yes, there are frequently many options because you can play the same note in more than one place on the guitar.
[QUOTE=adir olf]
Does that make any sense what I have asked?

Yes! Those were good questions! :) Do my answers help clarify the issue for you? Please ask more if necessary!

Originally Posted by: adir olf If you just decided to play one or two notes in different places while doing "pattern 1" does that make it in-valid?

Naw man I think that's GREAT if you have those connections memorized where you can hop around. If my understanding of scales is correct this will help you become more creative when creating licks because you are not hindered by your placement on the fretboard! My dad who has a music major and is a really good pianist told me to learn from his mistake and not confine yourself to one area. Memorize the whole thing and feel comfortable everywhere. There are so many different kinds of chords that can be played all over. If you know where all the notes are in that key you can more easily find a convenient way to bust into an improvised lick or run instead of only using those patterns! :cool:

When i first started memorizing these scales I would do only the given patterns and now im branching off and going to different places to cement in my head where (and what) those notes are.

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelThat's a good idea! Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass this along to the tech crew.

Hello all,

I'm the creator of the Fretboard Cyber Trainer. If you want to replicate this unique feature on your trainer, please consider to thank me :-)

Originally Posted by: Gianca1Hello all,

I'm the creator of the Fretboard Cyber Trainer. If you want to replicate this unique feature on your trainer, please consider to thank me :-)

Oh cool I love all the functionality on that web app. It's great you did a good job with it!

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588Oh cool I love all the functionality on that web app. It's great you did a good job with it!

thank you! I'm glad to be helpful! Happy guitar to everybody!

Originally Posted by: Gianca1
I'm the creator of the Fretboard Cyber Trainer. If you want to replicate this unique feature on your trainer, please consider to thank me :-)

I agree! Great app. Thanks for creating it. :)

Originally Posted by: CSchlegel
Yes! Those were good questions! :) Do my answers help clarify the issue for you? Please ask more if necessary!

:D yes thank you!

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelI agree! Great app. Thanks for creating it. :)

Hi Christopher, I'm proud you liked it, you're a great teacher!

I could read and understand the beginner tabulators. My biggest problem is plucking the correct strings without looking. Also. Incorrect placement of fingers when fretting. I'm totally a beginner and had just singed up. 52 years of age and I would like to learn as far as I can. Any suggestion would be helpful. Thank!

"Plucking each string without looking"...I am self taught on the guitar and learned from a book on classical guitar ( Wish I could remember which one now. ) I am 66 now...I had the same problem when I started. What I found useful, for me, was to play a line or small portion of a piece over and over until I could play it by rote. then I would move to the next line of the piece, repeat the first without looking and add the next till I could play them both by rote...I would repeat this process until i could play the entire piece by rote...Worked for me...I hope this helps.