stuck in a rut

I'ev been playing on and off for a long time, I just don't seems to be making any progress in my playing, I went threw the blues course 1&2(very good course btw) practice scales and different exercises with no real progress. Tried learning a few new songs but my technique isn't good enough to play the ones I really want, it's frustrating, what am I doing wrong? any advice would be great.

Hey Greg65 -

This happens to all of us, so you have lots of company.

The first thing that jumps out at me is how you define progress? What are your goals, what are you trying to accomplish?

From what you describe, it sounds like you have some skills if you could make it through blues 1 and 2. I made it 3/4 way through 2. One suggestion I have it so learn some songs that fit within your current skillset. Enjoy and use what you've learned!

Using myself as an example, I found myself reaching too much with the songs I *really* want to learn but I'm not really ready for (Voodoo Child for instance). So I've taken a couple of steps back to learn songs that are within my current skillset (such as Let it Be, Life in the Fast Lane, Day Tripper, etc.). It's a lot of fun. In the mean time I'm continuing to improve and maybe a year from now I'll be ready to tackle Voodoo Child. I'm also shoring up my foundation by learning the notes all across the fretboard and learning some more phrasing and soloing techniques.

Hey Greg- I hear ya man. It's very frustrating and discouraging to work at something and not see the fruit of your labor. I know when I got discouraged I would back away from it for a while -spend my energy on fishing, motorcycles, other interests. That's a real bad cycle if you're really intent on attaining real proficiency on the guitar. I spent a lot of time just getting back to speed after each hiatus. Not a good strategy - avoid it.
With regard to just general all-around playing/jamming/improv skills - I was stuck in (the dreaded) pentatonic rut for a loooong time. Sure, I could play in any key up and down the neck - but ultimately everything I played sounded the same. What lifted my playing up was getting a grip on the C-A-G-E-D system. (taught somewhere on GT I'm sure). I didn't "get it" the first time I studied it but when I finally DID get it - it had a pretty dramatic effect on my playing. Each "form" lends itself to it's own little lick library. Maybe take a look at that?
Learning songs ... solid advice from maggior (above). I would add that you should make sure you're relaxed and not all tensed up when you dig into a new piece. I chew gum because it (seems to) loosen up the tension in my jaw/neck/shoulders and I focus better because I'm loose. (?) Take it bar-by-bar and don't be afraid to take small liberties .. instructors here are extremely accurate. If you strip a section/phrase down a little bit and it still sounds good to you- that's OK.
Good luck Greg. Stay at it. You ARE getting better, you just don't hear it because the increments are very small.

Originally Posted by: greg65 Tried learning a few new songs but my technique isn't good enough to play the ones I really want, it's frustrating, what am I doing wrong? any advice would be great.

As Maggior says, it really helps to set clear defined goals... which songs do you want to learn? Let us know, and we can probably steer you in the right direction. I'd give you a bunch more advice for getting out of a rut, but I'd like to wait until we hear about your goals. Sometimes it takes just sitting and really thinking things through to define your true goals. So for example, wanting to play a song ("I would like to play 'Comfortably Numb') is quite different than wanting to be able to play like you hear in a song ("I wish I could solo like David Gilmour does, I love his style"). Neither goal is "right" or "wrong", it all depends on what you're after.

Its easy to be chasing after something that you think will give you a result, only to realize that you've been barking up the wrong tree the whole time.

Regarding the "CAGED" system that fretsmith mentions (and yep, they do cover it on this site), MIT used to teach that system, but "updated" it to a system that is based on five octave shapes that repeat across the fretboard. I investigated both methods, and found the octave system much easier to understand than CAGED, but there are people who find the CAGED system easier. The important thing to realize is that both systems are just different explanations of the exact same thing... they are both just methods of explaining a way to visualize the 5 major scale patterns across the fretboard, so if you find yourself preferring one method over another, you don't have to worry that you're missing anything.

Another thing I'll quickly mention is the Guitar Fretboard Workbook which I've recommended to a few people here on GT. The video lessons here are great (I was full member for over a year) but there are times where looking a diagrams is more helpful than watching a video of the fretboard.

But we're getting way ahead of ourselves here... back to your original post, if you could tell us what songs you'd like to learn and why, or any other goals you have, then that's when people can offer the best advice.

Greg, we all go through what you're experiencing right now. It is a natural 'frustration' with the learning journey.

When first we decide to learn to play we go through a very steep learning curve which means that every time you pick up the guitar you are learning & capturing a new concept or technique. I guess that's what is the beginner stage.

Once we move to the Intermediate stage the progress is not as dramatic or as quick. For me the key (excuse the pun) is to learn something new every week. Whether that be a lick, riff or new chord shape or maybe a song.

I class myself as an upper Intermediate player. Its probably where my playing will always be as I don't have the hands or natural skill to take me to the dizzy heights of advanced playing. That does not mean that improvement stops though.
My practice regime is goaled at being very good at what I can do & always push to include new things into the kit bag of what I can play.

Remember learning & then playing guitar is not a race to the finish line. There is no finish line, this is a journey that goes on for the rest of your life so enjoy every minute of the time you have your guitar in your hands.

Also get into studying music theory. Not just the basic must know theory but try digging deeper into theory. 95% of the theory you learn you'll never use unless you become a pro musician but if learning guitar is your hobby & passion then theory adds another dimention to the whole experience.

Good luck. Pick the guitar up EVERY day, even if its for just a few minutes.

"If you build it, they will come"

Originally Posted by: Slipin Lizard
...Regarding the "CAGED" system that fretsmith mentions (and yep, they do cover it on this site), MIT used to teach that system, but "updated" it to a system that is based on five octave shapes that repeat across the fretboard. I investigated both methods, and found the octave system much easier to understand than CAGED,...

Slippin Lizard -- Got any references/url's for that octave system?

Greg65 -- Pertinent newsletter article and thread here,
What to Do When You Hit a Plateau: Tips for Getting Unstuck;
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39329

Yup everyone goes through that at one point or another. Often its because we are such a bad "self judge" :) We look at our favorite musician and we say to ourselves "oh man I want to do that, this so cool !" we work to attain it (obviousbly thinking we are gone be good when we achieve it) but has we start to get the hang of it there's something else that we want to achieve and we say "oh man I want to do that, this so cool !" and we can go on like that for a long time always thinking we suck because at that point in our life we cant do what our "best"/favorite musician can do.

Where always practicing to get better in the futur but it dosnt mean we suck in the present.

The best thing I think we can do is to record ourself as much as we can. Try it. Record yourself playing a song you can play well, a day's practice, a jam with a buddy...anything really. Dont be afraid to hit record. In 3 months time when you listen back to your first recordings you will go "ohh wow ! I got a lot better ! ".

There's actually some songs/jams I recorded last year that to me sounded awesome and I was proud of. I took a listen to them recently.....my oh my did I grow as a musician since then lol.

Just make sure you have fun.

You may also think "wow, I'm better than I thought". This happened to me last week. I was so excited about it I posted a link to me recording here. I've already made some imorovements based on many repeated listens.

seb is right that it is important to record yourself.

Originally Posted by: john of MTSlippin Lizard -- Got any references/url's for that octave system?

John, in the first post I made the name of the book a link to the url for Amazon... the book covers the octave thing right at the start, so I'd recommend it highly. I was trying to be clever... :o

I haven't taught guitar professionally, but I have taught other subjects. While I know we're all trying to help, some of the advice, like "learn theory" prompts the instructor inside me to point out that there is no magical "learn-guitar-and-be-happy" panacea.

I recently read an excellent article in the Guardian about TED Talks, and how they have now basically established the format of "speaker goes through a personal experience, has epiphany, discovers solution to all our problems". What the article was getting at was that often the problems that are discussed have no neat-and-tidy solutions, but actually require a lot of thought and potentially multiple courses of action.

Sometimes I feel like guitar is the same way. When people say they are in a rut, its really important to answer the questions that Maggior posed, and for us to observe those answers before giving a lot of advice. Sometimes when you're stuck in a rut its not because you're not reaching your goals but because you haven't really set or defined any goals at all. You might just be learning random bits of songs, or the odd lick here or there... a scale that you learn, but then never use. All that happened to me when I first started with guitar, and continued for a long time until I started really defining why I was picking up the guitar in the first place. It doesn't have to be anything monumental... even just setting a simple goal, plan, & course of action like "I'd like to learn acoustic fingerpicking (goal). I will go through Lisa's lessons (plan). I am working on Lisa's lessons and will keep going until I learn the theme song (course of action)." As long as your goal is sincere to your own wishes, and well defined, you should be happy with the result. Goals change of course, and need redefining as we improve and our interests change, but will still need them.

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardSometimes when you're stuck in a rut its not because you're not reaching your goals but because you haven't really set or defined any goals at all. You might just be learning random bits of songs, or the odd lick here or there... a scale that you learn, but then never use. All that happened to me when I first started with guitar, and continued for a long time until I started really defining why I was picking up the guitar in the first place. It doesn't have to be anything monumental... even just setting a simple goal, plan, & course of action like "I'd like to learn acoustic fingerpicking (goal). I will go through Lisa's lessons (plan). I am working on Lisa's lessons and will keep going until I learn the theme song (course of action)." As long as your goal is sincere to your own wishes, and well defined, you should be happy with the result. Goals change of course, and need redefining as we improve and our interests change, but will still need them.

This is probably the key 'rut-ism'. You are stuck somewhere because you don't know where you're going.

I read in the original post that greg > 'Tried learning a few new songs but my technique isn't good enough to play the ones I really want' ...I'd say then, keep on practicing until you can play it. It's not whether or not you are good enough but if you want to apply the discipline to overcome the challenge.

Sorry for the GT old-timers that have read this before but, the first two things I ever learned to play on guitar were Rush's 'Fly By Night' and Zeppelin's 'Black Dog'. No exactly the easiest things to start with but I wanted to learn them. So I practiced a lot....a lot.

And I did learn them...and I'll tell you that Black Dog is never easy to play even to this day unless you keep in practice with it (the timing of that main riff is sooo funky).

So, my two cents.

greg65,

I'm thinking all the guitarist that play in those bands have been practicing for at least 10 years or more, daily, for hours.

Why would you be as good as they are yet?

Kick back, plan on this taking a few years and enjoy the small steps along the way. Who knows what you may be able to enjoy playing in 5 years.

you all gave me some good advice ,as for what type of guitarist I'd like to be I love playing blues and old classic rock , I think I'll take a few days away from playing, I was self taught and even though I'ev been playing for a long time there is so very much I don't know it's rather hard to know where to start, I will look into the C-A-G-E method and guitar theory for sure. Thanks again for all the help.

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardJohn, in the first post I made the name of the book a link to the url for Amazon... the book covers the octave thing right at the start, so I'd recommend it highly. I was trying to be clever... :o

I feel a bit sheepish...twice over. One, I skimmed over the paragraph containing the book reference and Amazon link. Two, the reason I did so was that I have that book (for a while now) and haven't got to it yet. :o

Nice to know that my plans are on a recommended track even if I haven't yet pulled onto that track.

Thanks, Slipin Lizard...you've given us some good stuff here.

Originally Posted by: greg65you all gave me some good advice ,as for what type of guitarist I'd like to be I love playing blues and old classic rock , I think I'll take a few days away from playing, I was self taught and even though I'ev been playing for a long time there is so very much I don't know it's rather hard to know where to start, I will look into the C-A-G-E method and guitar theory for sure. Thanks again for all the help.

Glad to help. I'm mostly self taught and have been playing for over 30 years, so I know where you are coming from. In some areas you feel clueless but in others you feel pretty competent. It's taken me almost a year for me to get a handle on just what I want to concentrate on.

If you are a full member here, you can try going through the core learning system from the beginning and see how far you get before it starts turning into a struggle. If you like learning songs, check out the huge song library and find some that interest you and you think you can handle.

...and have fun!!

Greg65,

I've heard it from a lot of instructors - you won't get any better unless you are learning something new that pushes you abilities. I started learning a new song the other day and after the first few minutes into it I said to myself "OMG, I am never going to learn this song" I broke it down chord by chord, measure by measure, very slowly and patiently until it made sense. Maybe you only learn a couple measure each day....but that's a couple more measures than you knew the day before!

I get into this rut as you mentioned. But to others it does not sound like you are in a Rut. We get to different levels of playing, Just go Day to Day and you will get through this. As mentioned take the song and learn a measure at a time. I have 50 plus and I still need to do this. Take your time, Where are you going?? Your playing should be an enjoyment, not something that frustrates you. Just play and enjoy your guitar. Getting with another guy always helps. I am a bed room guitar player now, but I still enjoy playing my guitar. When I wake up I usually start playing within the hour or so and I still love playing the guitar. I don't learn stuff every day. Matter of fact I am just fumbling through the finger board and not playing anything, but at least this keeps my fingers moving. Just go Day to Day, if you enjoy playing you will get through this. Your guitar should be your best friend. When you start thinking like this you will move forward