Is there any difference between improvising over Chords, Riffs and Arpeggios?

I've got a question here, that I'm hoping someone can answer.

Is there any real difference between improvising over Chords, Riffs and Arpeggios? I know that Arpeggios are just chords that have been broken down so you play one note in it at a time, but the technical stuff regarding how to improvise over them confuses me, as well as improvising over a Riff.

For arpeggios, I'm guessing you would just target any of the Chord Tones the moment the Arpeggio begins, but I'm not sure at all...

For Riffs, I'm guessing it's all just about using the same scale the Riff does, but again, I'm not sure. If someone could help me out, that would be lovely. I'm been coming up with a couple of cool riffs lately, so I'd like to know how to go about improvising over them.

Originally Posted by: Kasperow
Is there any real difference between improvising over Chords, Riffs and Arpeggios?

Yes, but it's more a matter of timbre & texture than keys, scales or chord progressions, note choice, etc.

No matter what style of music or what technique you are using when you improvise, you will be confronted with the same choices & decisions about keys, scales, chord progressions, etc.

Let's say you start with this basic chord progression.

C (I) - Am (vi) - Dm (ii) - G (V)

You can play those chords as fingerpicked arpeggios on an acoustic.
You can play those chords on a clean electric with a choppy staccato rhythm.
You can play those chords as diad riffs with a ultra-high gain humbucker guitar tone.

But the underlying information is the same. You've only changed the timbre & texture. Doesn't matter what tone, rhythms or guitar you use: it's still just I-vi-ii-V in C major.

Now what does change is the timbre. Those three approaches are going to sounds radically different from each other. Likewise, your approach to improvising, soloing or playing a melody along with those chords is going to be different depending upon which one you are playing with.

So, this is more a matter of becoming familiar with different aesthetic approaches, genres & styles. You have to experiment a lot with different guitars, amps, tones, styles while using the same ideas to see which matches best in any given context.

Jim Croce, Eric Clapton, Edward Van Halen all use the same 12 notes. :) They all only have access to the same basic raw materials of music: notes, scales, chords, keys, chord progressions.

Regarding the precise technicalities, you have to be aware of what chord, key or scale is being played, implied or suggested at any given time.

Obviously riffs can be played much differently than strumming straight full chords. But the same principles apply: your lead licks & lines have to be integrated with whatever is happening in the music at the same time.

If a chord progression is played by using arpeggios, then that rhythm part is going to be very busy with the chord tones spread out in time. You are going to have to find a way to play complementary & not just clutter things up rhythmically.

If a chord progression is more of just a riff in a certain scale or key, then you usually have a little more freedom, but you still have to consider what notes, scale or key the riff is using, implying or suggesting so you know which notes you can also use to make an integrated sound.

Broad topic, great question! :)

If you can post you riffs (audio or tab) I can give you some specific examples to try!

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelIf you can post you riffs (audio or tab) I can give you some specific examples to try!

Thanks for the explanation. I've got two examples for you in Tab. I'd like a few pointers about how to approach improvising over them.

Example 1: Verse Riff from a song written by a band I jammed with last Summer

Time signature: 3/4, swung 8th Notes
e|-------------------||
B|-------------------||
G|-------------------||
D|-2~~-2-4---2-4---2-||
A|-3p0-0-0---0-0---0-||
E|-------------------||


Example 2: Main Riff of a work in progress. I usually play this tuned down a half-step, but it works just fine in Standard Tuning. I'm not quite sure what Key it is in... I just like how it sounds.

Q Q Q Q Q E E Q E E
e|---------------|----------------||
B|---------------|----------------||
G|-4---2---------|----------------||
D|-4---2---4---2-|----------------||
A|---------4---2-|-4---4-4-2---2-2||
E|---------------|-4---4-4-2---2-2||
Q=Quarter Note
E=Eighth Note


I hope you can get an idea of how it sounds. If not let me know and I'll try and make a quick phone-recording of the two riffs.

You are welcome. First step is to consider all the notes you are using, then when are you using them.

Originally Posted by: Kasperow

Time signature: 3/4, swung 8th Notes
e|-------------------||
B|-------------------||
G|-------------------||
D|-2~~-2-4---2-4---2-||
A|-3p0-0-0---0-0---0-||
E|-------------------||

[/quote]
This is clearly rooted in A. Let's look at all the notes as scale degrees on the fretboard.

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-5-|---|-M6|---|---|---|---|---|
1 ||---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

So, you've got A as the root, the minor 3rd (C), the 5th (E), and the major 6th (F#). You are implying A Dorian.

"Implying" means you are using some of, but not all the scale degrees of a certain key or mode. In this case you are using the most characteristic degrees from the dorian mode: minor 3rd, major 6th.

So, I'd start with A dorian & see what sounds that yields.

Now, this riff does not specify which 2nd (flat or not?), 4th (sharp or not?) or 7th (major or minor?) degrees you are using. So, you might experiment with those to see what sounds best to you.

Also, the minor 3rd (C) might just be an ornamental, passing tone. In other words, you might actually like a major scale or mixolydian mode over this more than a mode with a minor 3rd. Another factor to consider & experiment with.
[QUOTE=Kasperow]
I'm not quite sure what Key it is in... I just like how it sounds.

Q Q Q Q Q E E Q E E
e|---------------|----------------||
B|---------------|----------------||
G|-4---2---------|----------------||
D|-4---2---4---2-|----------------||
A|---------4---2-|-4---4-4-2---2-2||
E|---------------|-4---4-4-2---2-2||
Q=Quarter Note
E=Eighth Note


Lots of options for the root here. So, it's best to list all the notes to see what the options are. I usually do this either low to high, or high to low. It's not a guarantee, but it usually results in the best probability of key defining notes.

High to low: B, A, G#, F#, E, C#
Low to high: F#, G#, A, B, C#, E

The most obvious choice here is either A major or F# minor (which are relative major/minor). This is because all those notes fit in either key without any accidentals or "odd notes out".

Again, fretboard to show degrees.

A major:

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-5-|---|-M6|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-2-|---|-M3|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-M6|---|-M7|---|---|---|---|---|

F# minor:

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|

It looks like F# pentatonic minor would fit nicely over all this. Notice I include the C#.

F# pentatonic minor:

||---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|
||---|-5-|---|---|-m7|---|---|---|---|
||---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-2-|-m3|---|---|---|---|

Or since it has the same notes but labels them as different degrees, A pentatonic major.

A pentatonic major:

||---|-M6|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|
||---|-M3|---|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-5-|---|-M6|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-2-|---|-M3|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-M6|---|-M7|-1-|---|---|---|---|

Another option here is to record a simple one note bass line & play the riff along with it to see what sounds good!

So play a repeating A note on bass. Or a repeating F#. You should also try the other notes in those keys. You might find that B dorian fits really well because it's the 2nd mode of A major & your riff leans strongly on the note B.

Hope that helps! Have fun!

Cool. Sounds like I'll have plenty of options for those two riffs :)

For the first one, I think it'll just come down to trying a lot of different soloing over that riff. The people I jammed with just used A Minor Pentatonic to solo over that riff, but I might like different scales to get a different sound, depending on the situation.

For the second one, it probably also comes down to playing around, depending on what key I want the song to be in. If I play it right after something in A Major, with a lengthy A Major-solo, it might be a good idea to mix between F# Minor and B Dorian, just to mix things up a little.

I've got a third one, that I came up with today. I'd like to try and figure out which scales would be good to use for this, and then if you don't mind, correct any mistakes I may have :)

Here it is:

Q Q E E Q
e|-----------------|
B|-----------------|
G|-2---------------|
D|-2---2---5-5-3---|
A|-0---3---5-5-3---|
E|-----5---3-3-1---|

Q=Quarter Note
E=Eighth Note


That's it. Now, if I were to determine which scales to use for soloing over this little riff, I'll look at the Chord/Notes used. First we have an A5 Power Chord, followed by an A Minor Chord. After this it goes down to a G5 Power Chord and an F5 Power Chord. This can imply that the Riff is in A Minor, so obviously I can use an A Minor Scale.

If we name the notes by their scale degrees in the A Minor Scale, it becomes:

e|---------------------------|
B|---------------------------|
G|-[1]-----------------------|
D|-[5]---[5]---[7]-[7]-[6]---|
A|-[1]---[m3]--[4]-[4]-[m3]--|
E|-------[1]---[7]-[7]-[6]---|


As seen, the only degree I don't use is the 2nd. This means that any scale I want to use should contain the notes A, C, D, E, F and G, which leaves me with very few options, since I'm playing in A Minor (I could be wrong on this, though). Two good options would be A Minor and A Phrygian, others might be A Pentatonic Minor or A Blues.

Am I mistaken? If so, please let me know what my mistake is, so I can learn from it :)

Originally Posted by: KasperowThe people I jammed with just used A Minor Pentatonic to solo over that riff, but I might like different scales to get a different sound, depending on the situation.[/quote]
The biggest "go to" scale for lots of electric guitarist is a pentatonic box. And that's good because it's useful, it's practical, you know what sounds to expect out of that old friend. :)

Further, the pentatonic boxes are a great visual guide for expanding into the modes, also!

I think too many guitarists, especially beginners, get wrapped up in the idea that in order to use modes they have to be Joe Satriani & shred up & down the fretboard, know every possible scale formula, pattern, lick & trick.

But, it's better to start small & practical. Let's try a simple experiment. This is the A minor pentatonic box, 1st pattern. Looks familiar, yeah?

||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|-m7|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|

Now, use that pattern to play this lick in A minor pentatonic.

|-5-8-5--------------------------------------|
|--------8-5-8-8-b/(10)----------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

Now, rather than try to learn every possible pattern, configuration & lick using the dorian mode, let's just realize that dorian is essentially just a minor scale with a major 6th, instead of a minor 6th.

Applying this piece of information to our pentatonic box allows to see that we can immediately use the A dorian mode by simply putting the major 6th in our familiar minor pentatonic box pattern.

||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|-M6|-m7|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|

Now, we can build a nifty, simple lick that is based on our visual reference of the handy minor pentatonic box, using simple mechanical fingering patterns we already know, but that has a modal flavor, the A dorian mode.

|-5-8-5--------------------------------------|
|--------7-5-7-8-b/(10)----------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

We don't have to worry about the 2nd scale degree. We don't have to expand the pattern across the fretboard. We don't have to know a million different concepts or tricks in order to start using modes in a practical way.

This is how I learned modes. I heard about them. I studied them. I tried to memorize all the patterns & formulas. But in the end, doing simple little experiments like the above was how I really grasped what modes are & how to use them. After days, weeks, years of doing little experiments like this I built a vast assortment of tools in my bag of tricks & a solid, working understanding of modes.

Build one good sounding lick at a time based on one idea. Don't expect to take over the world in one fell swoop. :)
[QUOTE=Kasperow]

Q Q E E Q
e|-----------------|
B|-----------------|
G|-2---------------|
D|-2---2---5-5-3---|
A|-0---3---5-5-3---|
E|-----5---3-3-1---|

Q=Quarter Note
E=Eighth Note

...
As seen, the only degree I don't use is the 2nd. This means that any scale I want to use should contain the notes A, C, D, E, F and G, which leaves me with very few options, since I'm playing in A Minor (I could be wrong on this, though). Two good options would be A Minor and A Phrygian, others might be A Pentatonic Minor or A Blues.

Yes, your analysis is correct! Well done!. :)

And all those scales are good options to try. And that is the key to this whole thing: go spend time trying them! Listen to the results. Be critical in what you like, remember the stuff that sounded good to use it again & expand upon it. Remember the stuff that sounded bad in order to avoid those patterns in the future.

Again, let's go back to our old friend. :) Here's the A minor pentatonic box.

||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|-m7|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|

Now, let's remember that Phrygian is essentially a minor scale with a flat 2nd degree. So, let's put that guy in our box.

||---|---|---|---|-1-|-b2|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-5-|---|---|-m7|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m3|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-m7|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-4-|---|-5-|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|---|-m3|---|---|---|---|

Now, let's build a lick!

|-5-6-5--------------------------------------|
|--------8-5-8-8-b/(10)----------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

I've used our familiar blues-rock pentatonic lick as a basis for branching out into using the A Phrygian mode! Now, build yourself another one. And then find another place to play the flat 2nd in an A minor pentatonic box. Then build another lick. :)

Make sense? Hope this helps!

This actually makes a lot of sense. Your idea of looking at modes as the Pentatonic scale with added notes actually makes learning the modes seem like less of a hassle. It's probably still gonna take a lot of time and effort to learn each of the modes, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make :)