modes 101.

http
://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l3RB37UhNGI
can you use this method for minor scales,i think u can
was this video disabled,if yes thank you.but it did have some purpose too modes.

Originally Posted by: axe2http
://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l3RB37UhNGI
can you use this method for minor scales,i think u can

Every major scale already has a corresponding relative minor scale.

The 1st mode of any major scale is the ionian mode. Ionian and the major scale are two ways of identifying the same collection of scale degrees (notes & intervals).

If you give every note of the scale a chance to start the scale, to be the 1st scale degree, then you will eventually get to the 6th mode, aeolian.

The aeolian mode is the relative minor scale.

Aeolian and the minor scale are two ways of identifying the same collection of scale degrees (notes & intervals).

So, while you can use the "method" in that video to write out any given minor scale, you would have to start on aeolian. Let's use the C major scale & its relative minor scale, the A minor scale.

A minor scale: a-b-c-d-e-f-g

Modes:

a aeolian
b locrian
c ionian
d dorian
e phrygian
f lydian
g mixolydian

C major scale: c-d-e-f-g-a-b

Modes:

c ionian
d dorian
e phrygian
f lydian
g mixolydian
a aeolian
b locrian

See? Same collection of modes with a different starting place. :)

This whole exercise is fine for starting to understand the concept of modes. But, what gets lost in this sort of exercise is the most important part: the sound.

The guy in the video does an excellent job of pointing out that he has other lessons in which he plays the modes on the guitar. And he goes a long way toward pointing out the differences in the modes is the resultant sound.

But in my teaching experience, it is always better to immediately concretize everything. Study one mode & play it so you can hear it. Then move to the next mode. And so on. Don't get caught up in trying to grasp some huge overarching concept without understanding & using each part along the way.

Hope that helps!

thanks chris,can you point me me too ur lessons on modes.i agree you have to hear each mode.the one thing i liked about that video,was you can lay out all the modes of the mj scale,without knowing the intervals.then as you look at them ,you can see the intervals.i think its a good tool too have.and btw how you explained it ,it makes allot of sence, thank you.

You are welcome. Here are my primary tutorials on modes.

www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=770

Originally Posted by: axe2
the one thing i liked about that video,was you can lay out all the modes of the mj scale,without knowing the intervals.

But that is part of my point.

The entire reason different modes or scale sound different from each other, the reason we have different names for each of them is precisely because of the intervals, the scale degrees.

The way the musical alphabet letters are displayed, neatly written out in a shifting pattern is a handy way to see how the modes are the same group of notes but shifted around.

But it doesn't show you the most important part: the intervals.

Why does Ionian sound different from dorian? From Phrygian, and so on? What if you have to play in a key other than C major?

Playing the fretboard patterns of the modes on the guitar helps you see the intervals, the distances between the scale degrees while you are hearing the sound is the optimal way of learn, practicing & thinking about modes.

That video is a good supplement to your studying! But do not neglect the playing & sound. :)

Hope this helps!

clears it up very well,thank you chris.

Originally Posted by: axe2clears it up very well,thank you chris.

Welcome, of course!

Originally Posted by: axe2the one thing i liked about that video,was you can lay out all the modes of the mj scale,without knowing the intervals.

Hey there Axe! I watched that tutorial. The thing that gets me with modes, and explaining modes, is that it doesn't take long for it to start seemingly like this super-complicated subject with scale degrees, key signatures, circle-of-5ths all that stuff... it just doesn't have to be that complicated at all.

I agree with Christopher whole-heartedly, and noticed you did too. Being able to hear the mode is really important. If you can't hear the mode in your head, then you're just playing a pattern, rather than actually hearing a note, and then anticipating the next note.

What I didn't like about the "Modes 101" video, was that right out of the gate, he made what I consider a big mistake by not counting out the intervals from root to root. This may seem hard to understand why its important, but I'll try to explain it as straight forward as I can.

If we look at the major scale interval pattern where W = a whole step (two frets) and H = a half step (one fret) the major scale can be described as, starting from the root note:

W W H W W W H

So if we use C major as an example, the notes are (I know you know this):

C (then a whole step) D (then a whole step) E (then a half step) F (then a whole step) G (then a whole step) A (then a whole step) B (then a half step to get back to) C

Ok, simple enough. But the real "tool" here is knowing the interval for the major scale. From memory.. "whole-whole-half, whole-whole-whole-half". If you can remember that, you can play the major scale starting on ANY note on the fretboard... just simply pick the root note, and then work your way through the interval sequence.

The guy in the video doesn't write out the whole and half steps... instead, he's focused on the notes. This method really shows its weakness when he tries to explain the mixolydian scale. If you look at 13:30 of the video, he's pointing to the last note of the G mixolydian scale, F, and pointing to the top of the page where he's written out the notes of the C major scale, specifically, A, and B, the last two notes. What he's trying to explain is that the only difference between major and mixolydian is that the 7th degree is flattened, in other words, you would play the major scale but when you reached the 7th note, you'd play it one fret down from usual.

Thing is, to understand this, you have extrapolate that A to B are the 6th and 7th notes, or "degrees" of the C major scale, which we're using as a template to define all the modes, and that the interval from A to B is a whole step, while, jumping back to G mixolydian, the last two notes are E to F, which is a half step, which therefore means the 7th of mixolydian is flattened... does that make sense? :eek: I mean, I can barely understand it myself and I wrote it!

Its far simpler to start with the mixolydian interval sequence, from root to root:

W W H W W H W

You don't even have to memorize the sequence... you could just write it down on a piece of paper and keep it with you as you play guitar. Now, using the interval sequence, you can play mixolydian mode starting on any note. Just pick the root note, and follow the sequence, working on just one string. This will allow you to get the sound of any mode in any key. You just need to know:

-the key (the root note you want to start on)
-the interval sequence of the mode
-a root note base to define the mode *you need to have something, a bass line, droning an open string, a keyboard, whatever... but something playing the root note to give the mode context. Without it, the mode probably won't stand out to you that much. For example, you can play the C major scale emphasizing the root note C all you want, but if the bass player plays A, and the keyboardist plays an A minor chord along with you, its going to sound like you're playing A minor. It'll just sound weird that you're not resolving to A, but it won't sound like C major, I guarantee it.

Now, there's a huge amount of depth that you can get into playing across the fretboard... looking at chord progressions that complement specific modes or modal changes within a song, targeting chord tones, all that kind of stuff. But what comes first is just getting to know the sound of a mode.

I love playing to backing tracks. I can put on a heavy rock sounding backing track where the D minor pentatonic scale sounds really good over it. Then, just knowing the interval sequence of a given mode, for example, phrygian, I can experiment... first just playing phrygian over the entire piece, so I get a feel how the different notes relate to the backing track. Then, with the sound of the mode still in my ears, I can switch back to the D minor pentatonic scale, goof around, and see where I can throw in some phrygian licks...

Its a lot fun, and what I like is that I'm focused on hearing the mode rather than working out a pattern on the fretboard... I do start with memorizing the interval sequence on one string, but after that, I'll transpose those intervals to other strings and other areas of the fretboard. I'll make plenty of mistakes, but as long as I can hear when I playing the notes of mode, I feel its good practice. Pretty quickly you start to get an intuitive sense for where those notes are, and you make less mistakes. For me at least, its a far more enjoyable way of engaging in modes than just going though a pattern.

As Christopher said quite some time ago "if you can hear it, you can play it".

Just a footnote... I do go back and look at the notes, intervals and patterns more carefully... I'm always trying to improve my understanding of theory. But the above method of using the interval sequence gets me playing the mode right away, which I find very helpful.

That's a pretty interesting interpretation of modes slip. Like the video guy I think I focus too much on the note instead of the interval. Ur simple concept of running thru the wwhwwwh sequence starting on subsequent degrees made it easier to hear the actual "mode" ( I do like how the video guy called them "moods") without fussing about the note names. Especially if done in a linear fashion on a single string. I can bang a little E chord and then immed run up the low E string from the first step (degree??), hit the E chord again and immed run from the 2nd step, etc. I think for the first time I am able to really hear that subtle/barely perceptible difference in the modes.

That was a nice effort so I thot I'd let U know you cracked the clouds a little for somebody ... it wasn't in vain :) ... I read the entire lengthy sticky on modes here but it only overwhelmed me. Nice job, now get to work on an essay on the practical application of modes :)- thanks

It also "cracked the clouds" for me to to listen to the mode. I could just never get my head around how two modes that have the same exact notes in it could sound different. With an understanding that I had between the C and Am scales - both having the same notes, I demonstrated this for myself on the piano, which is easy because it is just the white keys, and had an "aha" moment. I also demonstrated this to my wife who plays piano and she thought it was interesting too. Same exact notes played from a different starting/end point.

thanks slip,makes allot of sence.i know my intervals,for the mj,m scales.i have all the 7 mode intervas written down.well iam glad i posted that video,i kinda looked at it as a cheat sheat.and had i not i would of missed out on ur theory in general.u da man ,thanks again ,thats why were all here to help one another.yeah if u caint hear the differnt modes in ur head ,how can u point one out.thanks.so play or start on the secound fret ,g string which is A. and play each mode starting on that root.start with the mj scale run that in a linear ,one string.now back to the root A SECOUND FRET G STRING ,and play dorian,the same way.and try this with the rest of the modes.and how about doing it on all 6 strings,just one string at a time.if i want to play say an A DORIAN,start on the root 5th fret 6 string and follow w-h-w-w-w-h-w,across all 6 strings,includeing octaves too complete it.am i on the right track here slip.ill tell ya it aint easy to memorize all 7 intervals as we all know.but what i think about ,when i come across something a bit hard to play,or understand.before i let the frustastion set in,i think back ,when i picked up the guitar for the very first time,and all i could do was look at it.is that book on modes is it helping you allot.if so CAN YOU SEND ME THE LINK OF THE BOOK.THANKS BUD.

Hey guys, glad that was of help... sorry it took me a while to respond, just been a little busy lately.

Fretsmith, the question of "practical use" of modes is a good one. Its definitely a big subject. One thing that has helped me is hearing examples of artists using modes in ways that appeal to me. Joe Satriani's song "Cryin" has a part where he breaks into this beautiful Lydian progression... when I heard that, it really got me thinking about how to use modes melodically.

Speaking of Satriani, there was that YouTube lesson that I think Maggior linked to a while back, and during that lesson, Satriani mentioned the "Phrygian Dominant" scale. This intrigued me, and so I decided to check the scale out. I went through the same procedure that I described in this thread. First, I found out what the interval sequence was:

H A H W H W W *the "A" stands for "augmented": a whole step + a half step... in other words, three frets.

I then just played around with the scale on one string...

What I thought I'd do for you guys is post a demo of this experimentation process... I've created an audio file that you can just listen to on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYneqG0g4ds&feature=youtu.be
Please note, this isn't a planned solo at all... this is just me letting my hand meander around doing whatever comes to mind... I just made it up as I went along!

Here's a break down of what's going on:

-we're in the key of D. The first thing I'll do is play the D Phrygian Dominant scale without any backing track. I'll go up, and then down, on one string so you can hear the notes clearly.

-next, I'll just add the open D string to drone the note and play the scale one more time... bear with it, things will get a lot more interesting in a moment.

-ok, the music kicks in, and right out of the gate I play the Phrygian Dominant scale up the B string... I intentionally over-shoot the high D by one fret (hitting the second degree) before resolving to the D. I meander down, go up one more time... hey man, this is all for you guys to be able to hear what the scale sounds like over the backing track... I know its boring, but its a great way to hear the entire scale over the music.

-I play the D Phrygian descending.

-After that, all bets are off. Fretsmith, this is kind of what you're asking about ("sure bud, that's the scale, but what GOOD is it??..." good question..).

-(1:16 of the song) now I'm going to use whatever I like, but I do try to keep coming back to the Phrygian scale.

-(1:34) ok Fretsmith, just for you... this is a little legato lick using D Minor Pentatonic, but I end it on the F# (I hope that's right!) kicking the solo right back into the Phrygian Dominant mode again.

-(1:57) I leave the Phrygian Dominant behind for quite a bit here. This is where theory can get a bit weird, but I think the riff might actually be D Locrian... I'm not thinking scales though as I play it... I just like the sound of that F, G, A flat thing.

-towards the end I drift back into the Phrygian Dominant along with Pentatonic Minor.

If I got any of theory wrong, I apologize. Its really not my strong suit but I'm trying to get a grasp on it. The Phrygian Dominant scale is quite fun to play!

Axe, you were asking about the book on modes I got. Its called "Modes for Guitar" by Tom Kolb, you can find it on Amazon by clicking here. To get the most out of Tom Kolb's book, you'll want an easy way to be able to play your guitar along with the supplied backing tracks. His examples are not heavy rock, but they get you thinking about how you can apply the scales and modes you're learning. Some of his examples are quite challenging to play at the speed he demo's them. If you learn how to play them slowly, you can still utilize them playing along with the jam tracks... just play the riff slower and with different phrasing.

The other book I've found helpful is "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook" by Barrett Tagliarino. Click here for the Amazon link.

This book helped me with understanding intervals on the guitar, both moving up the fretboard and crossing strings. There isn't a lot on modes, and what there is, comes much later in the book. Still a good book though.

Lastly, there's Steve Vai's 10 hour workout book (here) This is a pretty crazy workout regime, but what I found interesting is that Vai talks about how he only learned one pattern for any given scale or mode, and that was just to get the sound of the scale into his head. Once he'd done that, he'd practice playing the scale up and down the fretboard, in any and as many different ways as he could. If he made a mistake, he'd start over. This way, he learned scale without being dependent on patterns. I can tell you though, that's a ton of work... I really don't have anything against patterns, and for us mere mortals, that might be the shortest and most successful route for soloing.

For learning modes, there are a couple of specific suggestions I'd have for you... (I'm still learning them too, but this is what I'd do if I were you based on what I've learned so far).

-get the Tom Kolb "Modes for Guitar Book".

-make sure you are setup with something that allows you to easily play along with backing tracks. You need to be able hear the track, and have a guitar sound that you really like so you'll be inspired to be creative and experiment.

-do what Christopher suggested... pick a mode, learn it. Stick with it. (Aeolian/Minor is a really good one that you can do a lot with... that would be my first choice). Focus on getting this one mode down... you should be able to hear the mode in your head, driving you crazy with soloing ideas as you try to get to sleep at night.

-if you have any questions about how to apply the mode you're working with, ask Christopher. He is a wealth of knowledge. He has the deepest understanding of theory of anyone I've seen online. The more specific the question, the better he can help you. When I was a full member, I asked him some very specific questions about rhythm and timing, and he gave me excellent helpful direction... just try to make sure you've answered your question on your own first, and you're truly stuck. But if you're in doubt about something... if someone starts talking theory talk that you don't understand (even me!), Christopher is the go to guy for setting you straight.

If you need help finding a way to jam with backing tracks, let me know... there's lots of options, and its really one of the best ways to understand and use modes.

Thanks so much slip,i really appreciate UR time and effort.iam not truly understanding interval very well,along one string know problem,but going through all six strings,is alittle hard at times..i know what the intervals are,i just have trouble puttin them on all six strings.i wanted u to know that ,cause ur recommended modes first,to buy.do u still think i should start with toms modes book first,or should i bounce too intervals.ill buy both,but i can and should work on one at a time...btw slip,that was just meandering,i call a cool solo imo. I loved the sound of that scale,it sounded Egyptian,very cool playing.and nice lick.i need to play that scale ,one question,how were u able to pick the back track,being its a mode..when i need a backing track,i google it and hope for the best.AGAIN THANK YOU SLIP,AND IAM GONNA START HITTING CHRIS UP ,ON THEORY.I LIKE WHAT VIA SAID,GREAT IDEA,GET THAT ONE MODE LOCKED IN UR HEAD,ECT.GREAT.

Originally Posted by: axe2i know what the intervals are,i just have trouble puttin them on all six strings.i wanted u to know that ,cause ur recommended modes first,to buy.do u still think i should start with toms modes book first,or should i bounce too intervals.ill buy both,but i can and should work on one at a time..

Yes, that's the right idea... buy both, then just go through the Guitar Fretboard Workbook until you get to the point where he talks about intervals and crossing strings. That comes really early in the book. Once you get that down, feel free to just focus on a mode, learning it, jamming it, etc.

Tom Kolb's book "Modes for Guitar" is quite direct and succinct. He starts with Ionian (the major scale) but you could just jump right in to studying whatever mode it is you want to learn. The five "octave" patterns that he uses to show how to play the modes are all the same, its just the root notes that are different, so once you learn one mode, it'll become easier to learn others.

For backing track selection, I have the BOSS JS10 which comes loaded with a bunch of backing tracks. I just go through them and try different stuff, then bookmark the ones I really like. I'd recommend that you start by just listening to backing tracks, and finding ones that like the sound of without worrying about what mode would go with it. Then, play to the backing track, and at that point figure out what mode would go well with it. It would probably help to try and hum or sing a bit of the solo first, as you guys were suggesting in a different thread. Then, when you've got an idea that you like, figure out what mode you're using. I do that all the time. Don't be surprised or put off if you find yourself mixing modes... it happens all the time and some track lend themselves nicely to shifting modes at certain points.

HEY MAN THANKS ALLOT,that is just what i need to do.what i did today, was like u said play one mode on one string,so i was playin the dorian on the B string.up and down,then i fiqured it wouldnt hurt to play it on G ,AND HIGH E.oh and itried it on a wounded string too the D string..what it did for me was it helped me see were the intervals are ,for that mode.no back track for it,i just wanted to hear the sound of it on a few strings.i fiqure its a good idea to do it with all the modes ,SLOWLY.cause i now have the dorian interval locked in memory.but iam confused about how to lay out the phrygian dominat,the one you were playin H-A-H-W-H-W-W.EVEN ON ONE STRING.what confuses me is the A AUGMENTED,so say iam on the root then H STEP IS THAT FIRST H STEP THE AUGMENTED THEN H STEP ECT.so if i start on the D note sec string and go H A H W H W W SHOULD THESE BE THE NOTES,NOW IAM ON 3RD FRT 2 STR
d# E F# G A B D,..IAM ON D AS THE ROOT D# IS AUGMENTED.IS THAT CORRECT.IAM SORRY TOO BE SUCH A PAIN IN THE [email]A@@.BUT[/email] I DO RESPECT ALL OF UR INSIGHT...OH ONE MORE THING,WHAT PEDALS WERE USED ON THE DEMO.ILIKED THE TONE U HAD,AND UR PLAYIN IS ALLOT LIKE MY OWN STYLE OF MEANDERING VERY SMOOTH.THANKS AGAIN SLIP.IAM GOIN NOW TO PLACE AN ORDER.PEACE.

Hi Axe, its no problem helping you at all! Here is the Phrygian Augmented sequence, on the B string, exactly as you hear it on the demo I did:


E ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
B ||---|---|-x-|-x-|---|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|-x-|---|-x-|---|-x-|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
D ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
A ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
E ||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3 5 7 9 12 15 17 19 21


The augmented step comes between the 2nd and 3rd scale degrees. Normally, with any mode based on the major scale, there is never more than a two fret distance between notes. Phrygian Dominant isn't based on the major scale; its a mode of the Harmonic Minor scale, which explains why it doesn't conform to the major scale interval formula.

When you describe playing slowly because you have Dorian "locked into memory", that's exactly how I do it too. Pretty soon you'll be noodling around, just playing something that sounds good, and then quickly recognize that you're playing Dorian, or what ever mode you're using, and then it will really start to click.

The guitar sound I have comes straight out of the BOSS JS10. I used the direct record feature. The unit doesn't sound as good through the speakers, but does sound great through headphones or recorded.

THANKS AGAIN SLIP,WERE SHOULD I MAIL THE BILL FOR THE LESSON.LOL
but really thank you,i just played the notes showen,i love it.i was lookin at the books lastnight,thumb nailing it.and when it came to finding the parent for each mode,my mind drifted off,way to heavy for me.i honestly dont think iam ready .
like the book suggested,have a good understanding of scales and signatures,then it would be allot easier too fiqure out.so iam gonna lay low stick with everything chris has to over.then i will be ready for the two books.i like via's book too,ten hour work out.once more thanks for ur help.AXE.

Hey Slip - That was a really good demonstration. The extra semi-tone in that particular mode made it even easier to hear. (thanks, by the way, for throwing another letter (A) into my comfy little W and H world :) .....

Wanna take a shot at something ? I get the basic gist of modes. I am a little confused as to why, if the chord prog you used was in D, would you start your lead line with a D ? If it's a Phryg mode would that not dictate that you would be going from III to III ? (F# - F# ?) That confuses me but it is the least of my questions ...

The book I am using explains the whole modal thing nicely, everything is clear as a bell until it says this: ( I will try to show what it says but it may not format correctly here ... my best shot):

"Each of these modes will be most suited to a particular chord which occurs in the key. This relationship between the mode and the chord is summarized below" ( using the key of C )

Mode Chord Example (C)
I-I Imaj7 C Ionian matches Cmaj7

11-11 IIm7 D Dorian matches Dm7

III-III IIIm7 E Phrygian matches Em7

IV-IV IVmaj7 F Lydian matches Fmaj7

V-V V7 G Mixolydian matches G7

VI-VI VIm7 a Aeolian matches Am7

VII-VII VIIdim7 B Locrian matches Bdim7

Hopefully when I push "send" the above will remain formatted in a readable form. So what is all this "matches" thing about ?? Is it a particular chord, or chord within a progression that dictates a "correct" mode to use ?? "Most suited to a particular chord" - what does that mean ? Can you not play any mode you "choose" based just on the key ? What is the significance (for example) that the IV-IV Lydian mode "matches" a maj7 chord ??

I realize that I may not have the proper foundation in theory and maybe I'm just hopelessly in over my head ? I've put an effort into this whole modes thing several times and always just "give up". I am comfortable with all the common scales - I can move all around and change root/key positions to compliment specific chords within a progression, mix maj/min, etc. - but this whole mode-to-chord relationship thing completely escapes me. I hesitate to invest time in memorizing the modes if I can't see where it's all heading (?). It's like "why build a boat if there's no water around"?

Help me if you can Dr. Slip .... if what I need to hear is that I need to go back and re-take 3rd grade before embarking on the mode adventure - just say it - I can take it :)

Thanks again for taking the time to put up the audio demo. I thot it was very helpful. I think you made the point you were going for quite well.

Best Regards- Ken

Originally Posted by: fretsmithThe extra semi-tone in that particular mode made it even easier to hear. [/QUOTE]

Yep... with that first run up when the music starts, I did that intentionally just to really emphasize the resolution to D. Just to my ear, that Eb to D resolution really suits the scale.

Originally Posted by: fretsmith(thanks, by the way, for throwing another letter (A) into my comfy little W and H world :) .....

New to me too! Don't worry though... from what I understand, Phrygian Dominant is a mode of the Harmonic Minor scale, so you won't be encountering any "A"s with the major scale modes.

[QUOTE=fretsmith] if the chord prog you used was in D, [why] would you start your lead line with a D ? If it's a Phryg mode would that not dictate that you would be going from III to III ? (F# - F# ?) That confuses me but it is the least of my questions ...

Ok, great question! I want to stress that I'm in the process of learning about modes and theory myself, so while I understand the issue you're having, bear with my explanation, I'm not a seasoned veteran pro at this... Also, I'm going to use bold quite a bit, not as a "speaking" emphasis, but to highlight what I think are important points... so just imagine I'm talking normally through all this... :)

Lets first go back to looking at the C Major (Ionian) scale. This scale is used as the "Rosetta Stone" for much of music theory, because with no sharps or flats, its very easy to understand.

As you already know, when we play the notes of C Major from C to C, we are playing the C Major scale. We follow the major scale interval formula W W H W W W H. (You already know all this, I'm just trying to build up a false sense of comprehension... ha ha, just kidding!).

Ok, we now have two things that we can do with this major scale interval formula:

1) We now know that if we pick ANY note and follow the formula:

W W H W W W H

...then we are playing the major scale in the key of whatever note we started on, the root note. Essentially, in its most distilled form, we've learned a way that we can now play the major scale starting on any note; just follow the interval formula.

2) In option one, we realized we could pick a different starting note other than C, follow the major scale interval formula and we would be playing the major scale of the note we started on, the root note. For example, we can play C major: follow the interval order, and come up with C D E F G A B C.

If we instead start with F, but still follow the same W W H W W W H formula, we come up with the F major scale:
F G A Bb C D E F
What's happened here is we've had to replace one of the "natural" notes (notes that are not sharp or flat, C D E F G A B) with an "accidental" (a sharp or flat note) in order to preserve the major scale interval formula. In the case of F major, we have to use Bb to maintain the half-step between the third and fourth scale degrees.

In both cases, starting on C, or F, by following the major scale interval formula we are playing a major scale. However, because we have switched keys by starting on a different note, some notes have changed. In this case, only one. We have B in the C major scale, but in F major there is no B, instead, there is a Bb. The interval formula is the same for both scales, but the notes are different.

Our second option is to keep the notes the same, but change the interval formula by starting to count from a different point, in other words, a different note or "scale degree".

This probably seems familiar, but its at the core of understanding modes... so lets keep going...

Imagine the major scale formula repeating on to infinity on both sides... I'll bold the major scale interval but this will give you the idea:

W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H

The bold portion represents the major scale intervals, C to C. So what happens if we pick a different spot to start counting our whole and half steps... for example, we start counting from the D... we skip the first W step, but we'll add it on at the end...

W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H W W H W W W H

we get this: W H W W W H W.

Well, this interval sequence is different from the major scale, and as you probably know its called the "Dorian" mode.

Ok, so I think you've got all this down, and if you've followed along thus far, then the most important thing to understand is that we got the "Dorian" mode by starting our count on the 2nd degree of the major scale formula. In our example of using the C major scale to come up with D Dorian, its critical to understand that the notes in D Dorian are the same as C major. The interval formula however, is not the same, as we've just seen. Because D Dorian is derived from the C major scale, C major is the "parent scale" of D Dorian. In other words, its the major scale upon which D Dorian is based. Each mode has a corresponding "parent scale". In this case, the C major scale or "Ionian" mode.

So to answer your question (finally! I'm sorry!) we came up with the Dorian interval formula which is:
W H W W W H W. When we want to play in Dorian mode in any key, we start on the root note, and follow the Dorian interval sequence. We came up with the Dorian mode by starting our count on the 2nd degree of the C major scale, D, and then continuing the intervals until we reached D again. When we want to play in Dorian mode, we play from root to root following the W H W W W H W interval formula.

So if we're going to play in D Dorian, we no longer think of D as the 2nd note of Cmaj. It is the first note, the root note, of D Dorian. You do this with all modes. The parent scale is the guide, but once you've derived the new interval sequence of the mode you want to use, you apply it to whatever root note matches the key you're in. If you're in the key of A, and you want to play A Dorian, then start on A, apply the Dorian interval formula W H W W W H W.. and you get A B C D E F# G A.

If you're in the key of D, and you want play D Phrygian Dominant, then start on D, apply the Phrygian Dominant interval formula, H A H W H W W. Thats why I started on D.

Its also why when you practice any mode, you want to practice it from root to root to hear the mode properly.

You might be wondering what that "A" for "augmented" is doing there. The major scale after all doesn't have any "augmented" steps in it. Well, that's because the parent scale of D Phrygian Dominant is not a major scale, its actually G Harmonic Minor, which follows a different interval formula than the major scale.

This idea of parent scales brings up another issue though. If we're going to play D Dorian, how are people going to know that it IS Dorian mode? I mean, if the notes are the same as the C major scale, then isn't everyone going to think we're just playing the C major scale?

What we need to do is emphasize the mode we're using (in this case Dorian mode, in the key of D), and there are several ways to do that. First, as already discussed, we need to play from root to root. This doesn't mean that we start and end every lick with D. It just means that in our playing we should be emphasizing resolutions to the D note... stressing that "D" is the key.

Another way we can do this is by playing over bass notes and chords that emphasize the mode. If we're playing a solo in D Dorian, but the bass player plays a droning C note, and the keyboardist plays a Cmaj chord, our solo is just not going to sound like D Dorian. Nope. Sorry... ain't going to happen. It'll just sound like C major, but weird, like "uhhh, why doesn't he ever resolve to the C??". We need the music that we're playing the mode over top of to help us out... to support our mode choice. Get the bass player to play a droning D note, and the keyboardist to switch to D minor, and now you're in business.

If you look at the chords built off of each degree of the C major scale, you get: C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim. If we want to play a "happy" upbeat chord progression that emphasizes C Ionian (major) we might choose Cmaj (our root note, or now "root chord") Fmaj and G maj. A simple "1-4-5" chord progression.

If we want to emphasize D Dorian, well, we need to start with a minor chord, because Dorian is based off the 2nd degree of the C major scale, and the chord built from the 2nd degree is minor. Since we're in the key of D, we'll use Dmin. If we were in the key of A, we'd use Amin.

Getting back to D Dorian, lets go 1-4-5... so we know the first chord is Dmin... Dmin is 1, then using the chords we got from the C major scale, we count up from Dm (2, Em, 3, Fmaj) then 4, G maj... so there's our second chord, and finally, our third chord in our 1-4-5 chord progression, Am.

So if you follow, a Dm, Gmaj, Am chord progression would be taylor made for the D Dorian scale. If you're not sure, go ahead and try it... record those chords, play it back and solo in D Dorian over top of the progression. I know it works, because I just went and tried it myself... I mean, you don't seriously think I'd trust what I just wrote is right without doing a "have I lost my mind?" check first right?? :)

So it almost sounds like you could write chord progressions that specifically support a mode... you can, and people do. In Joe Satriani's "Cryin" there's a section about midway through where he breaks into a beautiful Lydian mode progression... you can bet that he wrote the music choosing the underlying chords carefully to support the melodic line of the solo. We tend to think of the chord progression coming first, and then we fit the solo to the chords, choosing an appropriate mode. But it can be done the other way round... you come up with a melody that uses a specific mode, and then write the chords to support the solo. I have no factual evidence that Satriani wrote "Cryin" that way, but I'd wager he did. You'll notice in pieces like that, the chords are very understated, the whole rhythm section is very much just supporting the solo.

So that hopefully sheds light on the 2nd part of your question.

A really good example for the chord/mode relationship is what you hear sometimes in David Gilmour's playing. You can do this one yourself...

Think of Pink Floyd and those ringing, slow flowing chord progressions they sometimes use. Play an Em chord... slow relaxed strumming. Record it. Play it back, and solo over it using the E minor pentatonic scale. Think "Floyd" as you do it. Solo using "pattern four" (the pentatonic pattern everyone knows) at the 12th fret. Got it?

Ok, now, record again, same feel, but this time two bars of Emin, then switch to two bars of Amaj, then back to Emin... repeat for as much as you like.

Play it back, and start your solo over the Emin chord, using the same E minor pentatonic scale. However, as the chord switches to Amaj, break out of the pentatonic minor scale and hit C#, on the B string, 14th fret. Hit the note hard, let it ring. Now, doesn't that sound like the kind of thing Gilmour would do? Why does it work?

Well, essentially you start out lulling everyone into thinking you're in E minor (Aeolian) mode... after all, the root chord is Em... But you're using the pentatonic minor scale (E, G, A, B, D)... so you're not playing the full minor scale... in other words, you haven't laid all your cards on the table yet and truly established the Aeolian (E, F#, G, A, B, C, D) mode because you're avoiding the C and F# (you sly dog!). Here comes the chord change... Whoa! What?? I thought we were in E Minor!... but the "band" just played A major... it we were in E minor, then the chord should have been Amin (trust me). Instead, its A major. Not only that, you, the soloist, just played C#...! thats not in the E minor pentatonic scale. Come to think of it, C# isn't even in the E Aeolian (7 note minor) scale! Where did that C# come from?

Well, as it happens, it came from the Dorian mode. Why does it sound so good in this case? If we were in the key of E minor, a very logical choice would be Amin. Listening, you might almost anticipate that Amin chord. But we're in Dorian mode. Amaj couldn't be a better choice; not only is it a chord of the E Dorian mode, it also has the note of C# in it. The C# happens to be the note that differentiates an Amin chord (A C E) from an Amaj chord (A C# E). So, in one fell swoop you broke out of the pentatonic scale, and also established firmly that you're in E Dorian, not E minor. Hopefully that makes sense. It becomes very transparent when you play it.

This kind of chord-tone relationship isn't limited to just one mode per song. Its very common for guitarists to incorporate more than one mode during a piece, a solo, or even just a phrase. The more defined the chords and other underlying instrumentation (bass, keyboards), the more the mode will be obvious... but also the more "locked in" you'll be. The Emin to Amaj is a good example; you're really committed to the Dorian mode. Try playing the full E minor scale over the chord progression, and you'll hear how that C from the E minor scale just clashes with the Amaj chord. The less defined the underlying chords, the more "open" the piece will be, allowing you more choice in what mode or modes you use. The "downside" (really, just a creative choice) is that the mode won't be as strongly defined by the underlying music.

All of these things, chord choices, modes, timing, phrasing, note emphasis is all part of the creative process. Some players do it consciously; plenty do it purely by ear and gut instinct. However, I find that the more I learn, the easier it is to understand the theory and mechanics behind the music that I want to play.

Sorry the post was so long... I sure hope it helps!

Cal

Damn Brother! If I ever fall off a ship and need a buoy - I hope you're on board.

" When we want to play in Dorian mode, we play from root to root following the W H W W W H W interval formula."

I don't ever recall hearing the phrase "interval formula" but, for me, it really hit home. I understand that - completely.

I was also on the wrong track because when I heard a reference to " X Dorian " I incorrectly inferred that the X was designating the KEY , not the ROOT. That also clears my head.

As I doodle about the guitar with this enlightenment it occurs to me that I already use modal playing ( sort of... mostly in fragments ) when I improvise. I just called them "mistakes" HaHa. I also know now why it is that when I play using the harmonic minor scale ( aeolian? ) I find it more difficult to transition through certain chord changes... ie the Em - Amaj change as opposed to the more predictable Em - Am you mentioned. Interesting. I can use that.

I won't lie. When it came to all that chord matching stuff I was hoping you were going to say " oh, no problem, don't pay any attention to that stuff - you can play in any mode you want - whenever you want"...... That's apparently not the case. Damn!

I read thru your explanation several times and I can honestly say my comprehension on modes is at an all time high. Whether I can take what you've shown me and develop into a player who employs modes at will is (while we're talking honestly) doubtful. But I am glad the shroud of mystery has been lifted and I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you made to help me out. I will continue to doodle away at the concept and I'm sure some improvement will result.I definitely found some diamonds in the coal.

That backing track you used to make your mode demo is a pretty good example of the type of track I wish I could do better with. Hopefully something I glistened here will help with that.

Ur a stand-up guy slip - Thanks Again , Ken