Singing and playing - how do you do it?

If there's one thing that baffles me and frequently annoys me a lot, it is how outrageously difficult it is to both play the guitar and sing at the same time, yet I've seen so many guitarists who can sing at the same time and make it look like it's no big deal. So what I wanna know is: What is the trick to playing and singing at the same time? And is there any way to learn to do it quickly? I'd prefer if it could be possible to learn before Saturday in two weeks, since I've been asked/forced to play a few songs for the family, and I've prepared a small set-list with a few mixed classics (and a single original piece, but they don't need to know yet), and it would be more fun for everyone if I could actually sing the songs too while playing them. So is there some short-cut, or will it take months to learn to do both things at the same time?

Short answer it takes a while for most people to sing "well" while playing.

How much do you walk around singing? How comfortable with it are you right now with no instrument? If sing is second nature to you, then you should be able to learn pretty fast.

If you are just starting to sing out load as you play, Saturday could be a long shot.

I wouldn't quite say I'm new to singing in general. That would be lying, I suppose... I usually sing to myself a lot, so I'm pretty used to that. The problem just occurs when I try to play the guitar at the same time. My concentration and rhythm just goes right out the window the second I start singing along. I've tried to start simple, using the Rhythm Guitar-part of Patience, which is just a handful of simple Open Chords, but no matter how simple I try to make it, the problem persists, and I have no clue how to get rid of it...

This probably reflects my lack of experience and may be simplistic, but...

My "performance' on any one song often has been improved a lot by playing and singing along with a YouTube video...preferably one that features scrolling lyrics. There's still much practice involved but I believe it really helps me, particularly with the rhythm and flow of the tune and lyrics.

I guess it's not that much different than playing along with a "jam along" of one of the GT song lessons, just a wider song selection. ;)

I've had the same problem. It is a different part of the brain you're trying to access. Just like the rub your stomach and pat your head at the same time. I've had the best luck by starting with a simple song on the guitar that doesn't take much to play. Start with something with simple strumming and try sing along to it. Like "Mary had a little lamb" for example. Then as you get better, start adding difficulty to the guitar parts by arpeggiating, adding riffs, etc. while singing.

Certainly not something I mastered so I can't say that I have a well of knowledge about it.

....but

Knowing the song musically very well, does help. If you can strum it in your sleep, it's probably easier to sing it.

Start with the simplest song you can play and sing out loud as you play. You're not just asking your body to sing as you play, your mind is trying to keep track of other rhythms as you play.

It’s like sitting in a chair and rubbing your belly with one hand while patting your head with the other. Then deciding I'm going to swing one leg and stomp the other while rubbing my belly and patting my head. Adding singing is like adding your legs, in time it can be done, but it will take time.

It would help a lot if you didn't have to think as you change chords; it would give your brain more time to process the other thoughts. So start simple and add as you can.

At this point it really doesn't matter if you’re playing a real song while singing real words to that song. You need to get your mind use to doing the things at the same time. So play an Am7 to a Dm7 over and over and make up words as you go and sing out loud. Once you are more use to doing it, start playing a simple real song with real words. I picked those two chords thinking you play them more often than an open G and an open D. If I'm wrong, start with whatever two or three chords you can make the fastest without thinking.

Originally Posted by: haghj500Start with the simplest song you can play and sing out loud as you play. You're not just asking your body to sing as you play, your mind is trying to keep track of other rhythms as you play.

It’s like sitting in a chair and rubbing your belly with one hand while patting your head with the other. Then deciding I'm going to swing one leg and stomp the other while rubbing my belly and patting my head. Adding singing is like adding your legs, in time it can be done, but it will take time.

It would help a lot if you didn't have to think as you change chords; it would give your brain more time to process the other thoughts. So start simple and add as you can.

At this point it really doesn't matter if you’re playing a real song while singing real words to that song. You need to get your mind use to doing the things at the same time. So play an Am7 to a Dm7 over and over and make up words as you go and sing out loud. Once you are more use to doing it, start playing a simple real song with real words. I picked those two chords thinking you play them more often than an open G and an open D. If I'm wrong, start with whatever two or three chords you can make the fastest without thinking.

Thanks. I'll try it out right away, and hopefully see some progress. The chords you suggested are a bit off, compared to what I normally play most of. I usually use the open-position Major Chords (A, C, D, E and G), the Amin, Dmin and Emin, the 6th string and 5th string Power Chords, as well as some Sus2 and Sus4 chords. For some reason, those just feel most natural for me. I don't quite know the Am7 and Dm7 chord-shapes in my sleep, but if they're anything like dim7 chords, I fear they're gonna take a long time to learn to play comfortably :)

I think at the moment, the chords I have most ease with playing brainlessly would be A Major, D Major and G Major or A Minor, C Major and E Minor (not sure why, since it's a less typical chord progression than A, D, E...). I suppose starting with either of those two progressions would give me the most mileage, am I right? Just play something with those Chords and try singing some words over them?

Short answer: as always when playing music, it takes years to perfect. But since you're doing this for friends and family: take your guitar, sing and enjoy (probably while making mistakes, don't worry). There's no way to push yourself to become perfect in two weeks, but have fun and take time to perfect yourself in the future. I 've a suggestion: whatever the outcome is, promise to repeat this next year (they'll be amazed about the progress you made!). I've been singing and playing for 30 years now; although it sounds pretty good (I suppose), I'm still a better singer without my guitar and better player when I don't sing...that's normal.

"am I right? Just play something with those Chords and try singing some words over them?"

Yes, that is what I mean, also suggest once you get so you can switch between two or three of the chords you choose, without looking at your fingers while singing. Start using real words to your real songs.

There is a difference between, sing out loud, like in a mic and singing quietly to yourself. So start like you are singing in a mic to a crowd. That brings up another good point, your voice will sound completely different to you through a PA, try to get use to that soon. Even a cheap mic through your first amp if you still have it. Make sure the mic is not in front of the amp and have the treble turned down some when you turn it on. It helps avoid feedback.

Stand straight so you can breathe well, project from your stomach not your throat and nose.

Try to record yourself so you can listen back.

Originally Posted by: mlambrechtsI've a suggestion: whatever the outcome is, promise to repeat this next year (they'll be amazed about the progress you made!).

That's probably not gonna be a problem. The whole crazy bunch is gathered at least once every quarter, and some how, I end up having to play for them... Everytime. Even though I usually haven't learned a huge number of songs between each time, they still want me to play. At least this time I have enough songs I can play the Rhythm to to create a small set-list. The biggest problem here would probably be that half my audience is instinctively anti-Guns N' Roses, while the list of song I can play holds at least 2 Guns N' Roses-songs ("Patience" and "I Used To Love Her" flawlessly from start to finish, except for solos, as well as the first half of "Sweet Child O' Mine" and more or less "Chinese Democracy"). Then there's some other simple songs that people can dance to if they want to, though I don't expect it: "La Grange", "Smoke On The Water" and "Whole Lotta Rosie". Add in a jam or two and I should be able to entertain the crazy bunch for at least half an hour. And that's before even adding original material. If I add that, I might even reach 45 minutes, although I'm not sure. I could try giving them a taste of my own music and see how they react to it.

Most of my own songs use a standard 12-Bar Blues Form, one of them with such an annoying but catchy rhythm that it's been stuck in my head for the last two months! Conveniently, it's also one of those songs that doesn't have lyrics yet... I've considered taking the lyrics from another song in the same key, that I can never remember the rhythm to, and slamming those two songs together. That way I'd have two unfinished songs less, though I'd only get one song that I can remember how to play out of it :) Might give some good results. I've also got a song by a band I auditioned for last summer, that I'll be playing a cover of.

I'm still not very good at writing songs, though. the riffs and chord progressions come somewhat naturally for me, and I think I'm starting to improve my improvisation (to the point where my cover of "Patience" only uses the first half of the solo from the recorded version before going into an improvised solo using the Pentatonic Minor and Blues scales). If words just came as naturally, I'd probably be able to write more songs than I could ever publish... I'm not sure how good an audience these people are, when it comes to testing new songs. I only write Rock, Blues and a bit Metal, they listen to a mix of things. Two of them only listen to Pop, the rest are a bit more supportive, but only one of them has heard me play some original material, while I've been jamming, so all in all, I have no clue what to expect. No matter what comes out of it, I know it'll be another chance to grow as a musician.

And even if I can't sing the songs while playing them by next Saturday, I can still try and learn it for the time after this family-gig :) And hey, if I can't sing and play, that's not the end of the world. It's usually still fun to play for friends and family, because they're less likely to cut my throat if I miss a beat or hit a bad note. I'm actually looking forward to trying some soloing in front of them, since I've never done that either. I'll probably be spending a good deal of time until the family-gig warming up, rehearsing my set-list and finding some good backing tracks to solo over, so I can be as prepared as possible for this. I don't really expect to be able to sing while playing, but it would be nice. Seems like I may have underestimated how long time it takes.

Well, gotta make the best come out of this gig. I just realized it'll also be a year whole year since the first time I played for this audience, though there's one new person who's never heard me play, but he's pretty much into most types of music, so there shouldn't be any problems there. I trust most of the people I'll be playing for enough to know that they'll try to keep me going for as long as possible, and that they won't really care what I play as long as I play something :) I can throw in a sing-along if I want to (Knockin' on Heaven's Door), or between songs, I can throw in some random jamming to keep the flow going. All in all, they just want to hear me play, and I just want to make sure everyone is having fun.

haghj500, I still have my beginner's amp, and I have a microphone lying around somewhere without a stand. I just didn't know you can use a microphone with a guitar-amplifier. I'd obviously have to mess with a few settings and find a way to create a make-shift microphone-stand, though... Even if I won't be able to sing along in just two weeks :) I already plan on getting someone with a decent camera to film the entire thing and send it to me, or just use a camcorder, so I can watch it later and hear how it sounded. And maybe share the thing so I can get some comments and suggestions on how to improve in the future :)

That's great that you have an audience to play for. You should be encouraged that they keep asking you to play.

When you are doing these performances, are you playing over a backing track or a drum machine?

If not, I strongly suggest you do. I discovered last week that my Zoom G5 pedal has a selection of drum beats built in. By themselves, the drum beats sound really boring and may not match the song exactly. But a magic tranformation occurs as I play over it - as long as the time signature matches (4/4 rhythem or 3/4 rhythm), it sound incredible. And if you move from song to song, it sounds like you've put together a medly. Throw in a looper (the G5 has one built in) and you're like a one man band. Lay down a chord progression and you can jam until the cows come home!

I find the drum beats help my improvision too because you can really feel the timing and rhythm and it makes it easier to get creative with your phrasing.

You feel like you have a tireless drummer backing you who doesn't lose patience because you are playing the same damn thing over and over and over again :-).

Your amp may have built in drum sounds. If so, check it out.

Originally Posted by: maggiorThat's great that you have an audience to play for. You should be encouraged that they keep asking you to play.

When you are doing these performances, are you playing over a backing track or a drum machine?

If not, I strongly suggest you do. I discovered last week that my Zoom G5 pedal has a selection of drum beats built in. By themselves, the drum beats sound really boring and may not match the song exactly. But a magic tranformation occurs as I play over it - as long as the time signature matches (4/4 rhythem or 3/4 rhythm), it sound incredible. And if you move from song to song, it sounds like you've put together a medly. Throw in a looper (the G5 has one built in) and you're like a one man band. Lay down a chord progression and you can jam until the cows come home!

I find the drum beats help my improvision too because you can really feel the timing and rhythm and it makes it easier to get creative with your phrasing.

You feel like you have a tireless drummer backing you who doesn't lose patience because you are playing the same damn thing over and over and over again :-).

Your amp may have built in drum sounds. If so, check it out.

1: Yeah, I'm happy that they keep asking me to play something. Being able to provide some sort of entertainment for others is one of the half-dozen reasons I didn't give up the first time I hit a plateau :)

2: I usually don't use backing tracks or drum tracks, as my timing with hitting chord notes is horrible (especially since my ears aren't quite at the point where I can clearly hear which chord is playing. I can usually hear it if it's outright written which chords are playing, but I can't hear a C and then know that it's a C (hope that makes sense...). I've managed to find a few backing tracks for soloing over, where the video says which chords are playing (I usually try to find some on YouTube). As for the songs I play, I only have Backing Tracks for a few GNR songs, and I haven't tried playing with them yet.

3: I honestly don't think my amp has a built-in drum-machine. It would be handy if it could give me a Bass and Drum track to play along to, but I haven't found such a functionality yet. If it does have it, I'm guessing it's some obscure part of Fender Fuse that I haven't explored yet :)

I'm actually looking forward to not just playing for them, but out right performing for them. In my opinion, the main difference is is that when you perform, you have a fixed set-list to follow (with room for a few changes depending on the crowd's reaction), and when you play, you just play some songs you know without any specific, pre-determined order to them.

I have actually considered getting some sort of multi-effect processor. I've seen a few positive comments about them. And since I'm still in the process of finding my tone and style, I figure one of those multi-effects will let me explore and experiment without having to go to a store and sit for hours, browsing their catalog of pedals. My amp already lets me add effects in front of the amp or in an effect-loop, through Fender Fuse, but it doesn't let me choose quickly which effects I want active and which I don't want. That, and I would prefer to have both a Fuzz, Dist, OD and Wah, but Fuse only let's me have one of those, not all (it would be handy, since some of my songs sound better with certain effects, while others sound better with other effects).

The zoom g5 would give you that. You can have up to 9 effects, including an amp simulation going at ghe same time. I'm not sure what effects I'll ultimately find indespensible, so it is a great way of using a whole bunch. The drum beats and looper are great too.

9 effects? That's 125% more than my current limit of 4, aside from the real pedals I have. That might just let me find a set I like and then still give me some other effects to choose from. And as far as I can see from the images, it has 3 knops for each effect, so it might be worth buying once the budget allows it :) I can always try it out way before actually buying it.

BOSS makes a similar product. I didn't have the luxury of checking them out in person, so I went with the Zoom based on reviews. With something as complex as this, it's hard to decide just based on the time you spend with it in the store.

So, if you can check out both, I recommend you do. In general though, I'm happy with the G5 - it's built like a tank and sounds pretty good.

If you want to add peddles between your guitar and your amp you have to use a odd pattern for 3 peddles. From the guitar to the amp; 1st peddle, guitar uses IN, the Out goes to IN on the 2nd peddle Out to Out in the 3rd peddle, the IN plugs into the amp. At least that is how it was done back in the 70's. That is not a typo on how to hook peddle 2 and 3 together.

Originally Posted by: haghj500on the 2nd peddle Out to Out in the 3rd peddle, the IN plugs into the amp. At least that is how it was done back in the 70's. That is not a typo on how to hook peddle 2 and 3 together.

If its not a typo, it doesn't make any sense... have you tried it recently? I think the result would be that you would not hear any sound at all. The signal chain is incorrect; the amp is not receiving any signal. I have three pedals. I hook them up normally. guitar in---out to pedal 2 in---out to pedal 3 in----out to amp in. Works fine. I think you must of had a unique pedal or something... it doesn't matter what the effect is... the normal signal flow is input to output. Any normal pedal that follows that will not work if you hook it up backwards.

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardIf its not a typo, it doesn't make any sense... have you tried it recently? I think the result would be that you would not hear any sound at all. The signal chain is incorrect; the amp is not receiving any signal. I have three pedals. I hook them up normally. guitar in---out to pedal 2 in---out to pedal 3 in----out to amp in. Works fine. I think you must of had a unique pedal or something... it doesn't matter what the effect is... the normal signal flow is input to output. Any normal pedal that follows that will not work if you hook it up backwards.

That's how I usually plug in my pedals, too. Usually, though, I can't be bothered with figuring out the right order (whether my Wah or Dist goes first in the chain), so it usually ends up being just guitar -> one pedal -> amp with remaining effects...

Hi Kasperow,

Haven't read through the entire topic but when it comes to singing and playing guitar here's a video by my favorite only guitar teacher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29w4RyBjugo

It's a video by Justin Sandercoe of Justinguitar. Excellent free tutorials by a professional teacher.

Hope that helps.

JJ