OLD learners Look here

To all those who talk about and ask about being too old to learn :) (there has been alot of that discussion here in many forums)
listen to this NPR science friday story... let me know what you think


http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201202105

See my "New Book...and I'm Tempted" post, elsewhere in this sub-forum, http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36124 .

Thanks for your link. I still haven't decided between the book of going straight to the "shiny gold pants." :D

Hi John of Mt :
that's cool reading your link to your post! how coincidental! Did you get the book? I am now tempted after the interview. it was really good, or at least I enjoyed it

I guess I'm holding off for now. I've got a couple other guitar books that are waiting for me to start. If I could stay awake after 10 pages maybe I'd make faster progress... :D

From the other thread in this sub-forum about the same book:

My local paper has a brief review of this book which they got from the Los Angeles Times. The review is found here, http://missoulian.com/entertainment...19bb2963f4.html

yep, I think I'm going for it... next payday :) maybe I'll check the library first!

I don't know guys... I mean, all I'm seeing is text on the screen about how this guy went from "zero to hero" at age 38... one of the comments below the link you posted seems to be someone saying they saw him on a TV show, and all he could do was pluck a few notes... maybe, maybe not, but here's a quote from the article:

"It didn’t take him too long to conquer Guitar Hero (on medium), which he described as a gateway drug to other instruments. Next, he turned to a real acoustic guitar, learning music theory and taking lessons. Now, a couple years later, he can strum a tune on the real thing, and more importantly, he feels comfortable making up his own music – something that he finds to be pleasurable and immensely satisfying. “I might never be Jimi Hendrix” Marcus confesses near the end of Guitar Zero, “[but] I was able to create sounds and textures I had never heard before… for a brief moment I could sense what it was like to explore a new musical landscape."

I'm sorry, but two years of lessons and he can "strum a tune..."?? That's great, awesome, and all, but is it really worthy of writing a whole book with deep insights etc? I mean, that sounds like normal progression, or if anything, a little bit behind the learning curve. Hardly a "guitar hero" as the whole "zero to hero" cliche implies. To me the whole thing really seems like a lot of hype to sell a book in a market with high demand. There are millions of people looking to learn to play guitar just like there are millions wanting to lose weight, another big market that has the same kind of "check out the amazing insights I learned on my journey" books.

There's no secret to any of this stuff. Learning to play guitar just takes time and practice. I'd say the most important thing is knowing why you're practicing what you're practicing... don't just practice stuff blindly with the hope you'll be a better player for it. You also don't have to cross some imaginary finish line to enjoy guitar... experiment with what you are learning... come up with your own chords without worrying about what the names are, write your own song, jam along with a beat box, create your own solo or learn someone else's... whatever makes you happy, but you've got to take time to enjoy what you know, even if its just being able to play a couple of simple chords or something.

I certainly encourage anyone of any age to take up learning guitar, or learning anything new for that matter (hey, I learned to kiteboard last summer in two months!). Any progress is good progress, whether it comes easily or is a hard fought battle... but being able to strum a few songs after two years of practice hardly qualifies someone to write a book that is part instructional manual. Learning guitar to that level in that time at that age is something tons of people do all over the world... I really don't see what all the hype is about.

NYU psychology professor Gary Marcus took up the guitar at the relatively ancient age of 38 lol..... ancient age of 38,blimey since when as 38 been ancient, best pick out my coffin now then lol

I always say age is just a number (apart from illness like arthritis) which would at any age stop your progress..

Im 50 nearly 51 in a few weeks and ive just recorded this video of me learning to play stood up, its harder to play standing up for some reason. Ive been playing about 5 months if my memory serves and ive never had so much fun :-)

Age is nothing really if you have the interest, and lets face it, when you get older you stop chasing women so much and have less distractions, well apart from my grandkids going "giss a go grandad"..

Grrrrrrr :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tADV5lk-7Dk

I've read the promo notes and a brief review. I've heard a radio/online interview of the author. That all makes me an expert, right? ;)

To criticize the author's guitar skill (even *I* didn't think much of what I heard) or the amount of time he's put into learning is missing the point. Maybe. I think.

I got the impression that the focus of the book is about learning at an age well past adolescence. There is discussion about the rapidity or ease of learning when a child vs. learning later in life (plasticity of the brain). And I think there's discussion about what can be done to mitigate the slower learning of adulthood. If the author can provide some shortcuts to helping the brain do it faster then his book might be worthwhile. Presumably, given the title of the book, the help is keyed to learning guitar vs. some other physical skill, or a language, etc.

I think the author makes a point about there being no substitute for practice...lots of practice. And he also pooh-poohs the notion that successful guitarists must have an inate musical talent. At the same time, he acknowledges there are those that *do* have that inate talent and can do in short time what others take a lifetime to achieve.

*That's* what I think the book is about but then...I haven't read it.:) Has anyone here? It could be encouraging...how to learn...what to do to help one on the way when one has matured and has no musical talent. That calls my name. :D

FYI, the Amazon hardback price has dropped all the way down to $15.44 with another provider's price cheaper than that. Kindle version is $12.99 .

yes i agree john, thats what the book seems to be about, its not a guitar instruction, its more getting rid of the Myth that if you dont learn something at an early age then you are stuffed. Its just not true.

we all see these very talented young people born to do it, but that doesn't mean that you have no chance if you have started later in life. we all have the same brains and the same ability even if it takes some of us longer to acquire it.. What some lack is the confidence or believe the myth that if you are past 30 then you are only good for the scrap heap.


;-)

Originally Posted by: john of MTI've read the promo notes and a brief review. I've heard a radio/online interview of the author. That all makes me an expert, right? ;)

To criticize the author's guitar skill (even *I* didn't think much of what I heard) or the amount of time he's put into learning is missing the point. Maybe. I think.

Yeah, well, I never claimed to be an expert. Just going by my own experience. You know, it is an "open discussion" forum... if you can't handle a different opinion, rational discussion, then maybe you're in the wrong place?

And since you brought up the "makes me an expert right?" line... so the guy learns to play guitar over two years and can strum a few chords... that seems to have made him an "expert"... certainly enough of one that he feels qualified to write a book about how to learn to play guitar. I don't think my criticism misses the point at all... you DO realize that the book is partly intended as an instructional manual, right??

Of course I am going to critique someones qualifications with something like this. If he had a hit song on the radio, and everyone was saying "wow, that guitar playing is just amazing, it sounds terrific!!" and "yeah, but the real story is that guy learned to play like that in just two years...!" then I'd be interested. But its just words on a page. He's just written a book about "becoming a guitarist" (whatever that means) and now there's a bunch of on-line articles hyping up the book... so he can strum some chords after two years... big deal. So yeah John, I feel totally entitled to question the guy's sincerity, and if that bothers you, too frigin bad. ;)

Originally Posted by: wingman23its not a guitar instruction,
;-)

You're wrong about that... its part "philosophy" but according to the descriptions, it is intended as a book on how to learn to play guitar, learning scales etc... its not a strict "Inner Game of Music" type of book. If it were, it wouldn't bug me, but I feel its just a bunch of hype where a someone is saying they've discovered all these new insights to learning guitar... two years of lessons and practice, & able to strum chords... ok... there's absolutely nothing revolutionary about that.

Having not read it myself i cant say for sure, but it seems to me reading review of it that it is more about the brain being able to learn at a later age rather than some in depth teaching aid. this is what one reviewer had to say about it.
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I never felt like we got settled down into a flow because Marcus spends so much time touching on so many different subjects all the time.

Neurological science, music's historical and cultural origins, interviews with famous guitarists, anecdotes of famous guitarists, talking a lot about how precise a musician's movements have to be, responding a lot (directly and indirectly) to the claims made in Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers' (which, coincidentally, was the book I'd finished reading right before starting this one; how about THAT!), and a little bit about his journey into music.

Interestingly enough, the thing he focuses the least on is what I expected the book to be about: him learning guitar. He abandoned that pretty early on, it seems. He did spend a whole chapter talking about his experience at a youth Rock and Roll Camp, but there wasn't much personal stuff after that. By the end of it, I'd read a lot of interesting stuff, but I didn't walk away feeling like I'd been on a journey or anything--that lacking feeling was punctuated by the way he talked about his next musical ventures, such as with the MIDI guitar . . . it's like he headed off to 2nd grade one morning and the next time I see him, thinking it's the next day, he's graduating high school.

There's a lot of stuff missing there that I wanted to hear: his struggles with grasping more advanced music theory, his personal guitar lessons, his practice schedule, the things he focused on to learn and build his repertoire, other stage experiences (I felt he implied he had them), and instead I got to hear a lot about gray matter and the creative genius of Bob Dylan.
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Doesn't sound much like a teach me to play guitar book to me..

He's hardly Russ shipton is he. lol.....

Originally Posted by: wingman23Having not read it myself i cant say for sure, but it seems to me reading review of it that it is more about the brain being able to learn at a later age rather than some in depth teaching aid..

Oh, I absolutely agree with you there. What I was getting at was that from what I've seen, they are toting it as partly a "learn to play guitar" book. What amazes me is that people seem to get all amped up about this book, and they haven't even heard him play... one of the reviewers had heard him, and said he couldn't really play at all! If he had picked the violin, flute, or even piano, I don't think there would be the hype there is... I think he picked guitar because there are so many people out there that want to know the *secret* to guitar playing. In the article John linked to the title says "Guitar Zero to Real Guitar Hero"... guitar "hero"???.... really?

What's the point anyways? You said it... if you're passionate about it, age doesn't matter. If this guy concludes that yes, you can learn to play a musical instrument when you're older, do we really need to read a whole book to get that assurance? Sounds like some people do, but I don't. And if he concluded that you can't learn an instrument at that age, I wouldn't listen to him either... there's no secret... it just takes time and practice, which apparently he admits in his book...wow, big revelation there. I think the $15 would be better spent on a month membership at GT, where you could download a ton of lessons and actually get on with learning to play guitar.

It made sense to me that the psychologist wrote a book about the psychology of learning at a later age. That seemed to be what I read and heard about the book. As such, it could be helpful or at least interesting to those that fit the older age category.

If it's intended to be guitar instruction then I too would question the worth of the book given the author's scant experience with the instrument (and not so hot performance during the interview). But, if as I assumed, it's about certain techniques that overcome the comparitively slower, more difficult learning when past a certain age then it may have worth.

At the least, maybe it'll temper all the "am I too old" posts. :D

Anybody read it yet?