Seeing as Bush has won (the popular vote, anyway)

If the president has so little control over the economy then he should stop using it in his speeches for presidency. By the way he does sign the bill at the end to put in motion everything that has to do with economy. He is the top guy, but yes he can be overthrown by the house and senate. But he has control of the house and senate.

I never said Kerry was not rich, I stated bush is for the rich while kerry was for the middle and lower class. 99% of america. those peoples decisions have nothing to do with who i would rather see in office. just like my view on the filthy rich sway my support and ideology. but shouldn't the person who is for 99 percent win over the one whose for 1 percent. the middle class is the backbone of america, the rich get rich on our backs. bush's ideas puch the middle class into lower class, as i stated with the poverty rate. there must be a middle class for the structure to work, without it it will collapse. well it's heading in that direction and nothing i have seen from bush will persuade me otherwise.

I agree with Sly, and noticing.

By the way, noticing, if you haven´t seen I have sent you a question as a private message, just in case you never have a look in this folfder..

Originally Posted by: LeedoggI don't see stem cell research and abortion as having anything to do with Atheism.

I realize you guys won. The presidency, house, senate, and soon the supreme court will all belong to you victorious republicans. My only solace is that now you will have absolutely no excuses if anything gets ****ed up, because hillbillies, rich assholes, and christian conservatives the whole country over are now running everything. So let's see what happens. It's a one party show (see: Germany 1934). Maybe if y'all do a good job, I'll get an American flag tattooed on my forehead, make my kids pray in school, and then I'll go stomp a foreigner for Jesus.

P.S. Don't take away my guns.

The whole issue with stem cell and abortion involves murder, which is against what Christians believe. I made the comment because you said you believe in stem cell research and abortion, which in turn says you believe in murder. I don't know much about atheism, and really don't care to know. I just know that murder is wrong, no matter what religion (or lack of religion) you are.

This country was founded by Christians, the majority of the population is christian, and this is ONE NATION UNDER GOD......I'm not a bible thumper, but if the government see's that's it's important to take prayer out of school's, so be it, doesn't bother me. The way I see it is that the government is ironic in that they take prayer's out school, this and that, seperation of church and state, but they don't work on Sunday's, Easter, Christmas, etc......what's the deal with that?

Republican's fight to protect your right to own a gun. The Democrat's are the ones who want to take them away....

Isn't denying some one medical treatment murder ?

The law in America seems to think it is, like turning off the heart and lung machine ?

Originally Posted by: kingdavidOK.
Now, if my history serves me right, 9/11 was the largest (and I think the only-correct me if I'm wrong) attack on American soil since Pearl Harbour. Your having not been attacked previously doesn't mean the presidents you've had previously were good at anti terrorism, or that terrorists didn't exist before Osama. And by the same token, just because you haven't been attacked ever since, it doesn't necessarily mean Bush is doing a good job of defending you. In fact, from what I hear, America is still vulnerable to WTC style attacks.

Here is a list of attack's on the U.S. since 1979 by terrorist.....
The WTC attacks in 2001 was the first MAJOR attack on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor. The WTC towers were attacked in 1993

Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979
Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983
Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983
Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988
First New York World Trade Center attack 1993
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996
Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998
Dar es Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998
Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000
New York World Trade Center 2001
Pentagon 2001

I think it was about time a president stood up and took some action. America will always be vulnerable to attacks, as is any nation in the world. Nobody is immune to attacks.....

Originally Posted by: Dr_simonIsn't denying some one medical treatment murder ?

The law in America seems to think it is, like turning off the heart and lung machine ?

I wouldn't consider that murder. There are system's out there to aid people who can't afford medical treatment, but it's abused so much that it hurts the people who really need the treatment. For example, about 3 years ago, I took a friend of mine to the emergency room b/c he got bit by a rattlesnake. Okay, I remember one guy in there getting free treatment for a toothache, a ridiculous thing to be in the ER for. He had a brand new cell phone, talking on it the whole time he was there, and I noticed when he left, he got into a brand new Mercedes. If he can't afford medical treatment, how could he afford a Mercedes. It's people like that that abuse the system and make it to where medical treatment has to be denied to some....

I don't consider the heart and lung machine thing to be murder either. Abortion and stem cell ends a new life that hasn't had a chance yet. Taking someone off of life support is freeing that person so they won't suffer anymore. This is a touchy subject and this is my opinion on it.

Originally Posted by: JFRICKI think it was about time a president stood up and took some action. America will always be vulnerable to attacks, as is any nation in the world. Nobody is immune to attacks.....

I agree, it is time for us to take a stand against terrorists instead of funding them. Which is why I question Bush's tactics, he might be doing something but what?? Bin Laden and most of Al Queda are still at large. And also notice that not one of those attack can be linked to Iraq or Saddam Hussein. Going after him in return of the list you wrote, is that doing something?

Abortion is questionable whether it's murder. IMHO abortion is only murder once the baby has reached the stage where it is aware it is alive. When it's still a couple of cells, I don't think it's murder. And this should be where the women decides whether she wants an abortion or not. Not when it is nearly full grown. That's wrong IMO. I think the women should still have the right to choose, because there still can be a responcible and civil choice in doing so. example the women may be financially unstable, and not rightly equiped to care for a child. or the woman was raped, which is no fault of her own. She should not have to punished again by being forced to have the child. Stem cell can be considered murder, but that depends on the circumstance. If abortion is allowed why not take the benefit of stem cell also.

I mean hunting with a rifle is murder, but hunting and just leaving the kill to rot in the forest is a waste. No real comparison but there's a point. In what we can't control we must seek the best out of it.

Originally Posted by: noticingthemistakeAbortion is questionable whether it's murder. IMHO abortion is only murder once the baby has reached the stage where it is aware it is alive. When it's still a couple of cells, I don't think it's murder. And this should be where the women decides whether she wants an abortion or not. Not when it is nearly full grown. That's wrong IMO. I think the women should still have the right to choose, because there still can be a responcible and civil choice in doing so. example the women may be financially unstable, and not rightly equiped to care for a child. or the woman was raped, which is no fault of her own. She should not have to punished again by being forced to have the child. Stem cell can be considered murder, but that depends on the circumstance. If abortion is allowed why not take the benefit of stem cell also.

I mean hunting with a rifle is murder, but hunting and just leaving the kill to rot in the forest is a waste. No real comparison but there's a point. In what we can't control we must seek the best out of it.

Okay, let me clarify my stand on abortion. Abortion is just plain wrong as a means of birth control. I do agree that a woman should be able to have one if, and only if, she has been raped. I know I'm being hyporcritical here in that I believe abortion is murder and I believe a woman should have the right to have one in the case of rape. But there is no perfect solution to it.

Hunting with a rifle is murder? How's that? Yeah, it's wrong to kill something and leave it there to rot. But humans have to eat, and we eat meat (naturally). That's just a part of the food chain.

Originally Posted by: JFRICKHunting with a rifle is murder? How's that? Yeah, it's wrong to kill something and leave it there to rot. But humans have to eat, and we eat meat (naturally). That's just a part of the food chain.

He's making an analogy somewhat in your favor, I'd just let it be.

Originally Posted by: JFRICKThe whole issue with stem cell and abortion involves murder, which is against what Christians believe. I made the comment because you said you believe in stem cell research and abortion, which in turn says you believe in murder. I don't know much about atheism, and really don't care to know. I just know that murder is wrong, no matter what religion (or lack of religion) you are.

This country was founded by Christians, the majority of the population is christian, and this is ONE NATION UNDER GOD......

so if you get in abotion your a murder but if you go kill some one for you'r
country you'r a hero it doesn't make since there both the takeing of a
life but there seen completly diffrent
I'm not for abortion nor am I trying to attack jefrick I just thoght the hipocracy of this country was a littile ironic

P.S. sorry if anything was miss spelld I didn't feel like checking
:(

I'm just going to let it all be....I'm getting to wrapped up in this thread, I'm going to get out before I offend anyone....

I apologize to anyone I offended. I didn't mean any of it that way. Just expressing my opinions.

Originally Posted by: LeedoggI don't see stem cell research and abortion as having anything to do with Atheism. Case in point, 2 years ago my buddy knocked up his ultra-right wing, catholic, republican, daddy's rich little girl, girlfriend and she had to go get that fetus sucked out of her so she could continue to be in college. Irony: She voted for a man who wants to take that right away from her.

I hate the hypocrisy of the Christian right. They're an embarassment to Christians everywhere.

I realize you guys won. The presidency, house, senate, and soon the supreme court will all belong to you victorious republicans. My only solace is that now you will have absolutely no excuses if anything gets ****ed up, because hillbillies, rich assholes, and christian conservatives the whole country over are now running everything. So let's see what happens. It's a one party show (see: Germany 1934). Maybe if y'all do a good job, I'll get an American flag tattooed on my forehead, make my kids pray in school, and then I'll go stomp a foreigner for Jesus.

I dunno...I still think I'm kind of a nice guy in daily life...And I think Republican's may be right-wing, but they're a long site from fascism. If good things happen, you may want to avoid that tatoo, though. The forehead is probably not the best place for one. Good to see you're taking the loss well. Wait until 2012, then you guys can run Barak Obama. He'll kick the **** out of anyone we run.

P.S. Don't take away my guns.

Use them on the gov't if things go as bad as you think they will, hell, if it goes THAT bad, give me a call. We'll storm the fortress together. Liberal, conservative, who gives a ****? We've got AK-47s.

Originally Posted by: 3rd_degreeburnI can see this thread closing soon

We've got a ways to go before someone says something horribly offensive or flames someone else.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonWe've got a ways to go before someone says something horribly offensive or flames someone else.

Why wait?? Screw all you Bush loving people. I'll pee on ur face and fart in your mouth. Wait. In reverse cause then I would my own pee on myself, not cool. then ill crap all over your walls, yeah. I hope you all die!!! :mad:

I am George W. Bush and I support this message.

I figured I'd get that out of the way then. :D

Originally Posted by: HammurabiSo, where does economic security fit into the equation? What about education and medical assistance for the elderly to compensate for the skyrocketing costs of pharmeceuticals?

While everything you mentioned is definitely important what you described is Ghengis Kahn, not a suitable president.[/QUOTE]
Forgive me, but that's just a laughable response, and it shows that you don't really know anything about civics. Economic security? . . . How about getting a job? It is up to each individual to provide for their own economic security, not the government or the president. Education? Medical assistance? Medicine?....what happened to the days when people were able to work to better their own situations and their own lives instead of relying on a powerful central government to do it for them? However, in this "enlightened" and compassionate age, I do realize that this is not a very popular viewpoint. Even so, it is the responsibility of the Congress to pass laws about these issues. The president doesn't have much to do with it.

Originally Posted by: kingdavidDemocracy, baby. Democracy ( is it just me or is the word democrazy ringing in your head too?).
Oh well.[/QUOTE]
America is not a democracy. It's a republic. Anyone who knows anything about anything knows that pure democracy is a stupid system and can only end in fascism.

Originally Posted by: kingdavidYour having not been attacked previously doesn't mean the presidents you've had previously were good at anti terrorism, or that terrorists didn't exist before Osama. And by the same token, just because you haven't been attacked ever since, it doesn't necessarily mean Bush is doing a good job of defending you.

It depends on where you want to land the blame (or the credit). One could argue that because of Clinton, Kerry, and other liberals cutting defense and intelligence budgets for eight years that America was attacked. I do know that because of what Bush has done in Afghanistan Osama's network has been either mostly destroyed or is on the run.



[QUOTE=kingdavid]
CONSPIRACY THEORY:
The CIA faked that Osama tape to scare Americans into voting for the guy that looks like he can do a better job of fighting terrorism.

That's just stupid. Polls showed that the tape had no effect on the opinions of the electorate. If anything the tape would have hurt Bush because it reminded everyone at the last minute that OBL was still out there.



[QUOTE=beginner]Right, as long you are not attacked, everything is fine. And it doesn´t matter how many (A LOT MORE THAN on 9 11) non-americans died in the last 3 years due to decisions of Bush?
But obviosly many americans don´t care about this point!

Maybe the rest of the world needs to start trying to stand on their own two feet instead of always running to the US for help. Whenever there's any disaster or any unrest everyone always expects us to come swooping in with a bag of money, or some stupid police action, and fix things. America is the most charitable nation on the planet, and the only thing we get in return is a slap in the face.



To NTM - it all comes down to what you believe the responsibility of the government really is. You're right, nobody is perfect, and no one's plan for the future of the country will be perfect either. There are just too many variables. But when a candidate for president has a thirty year record of raising taxes, restricting freedoms, and voting against the military, I don't think we need him in office.

You can't have a prosperous economy without morality. After all, if everyone was stealing and killing, there wouldn't be much point in trying to be productive. Just look at 3rd world countries. So if voting on morality makes us blind, then so be it.

Originally Posted by: ChristophMaybe the rest of the world needs to start trying to stand on their own two feet instead of always running to the US for help. Whenever there's any disaster or any unrest everyone always expects us to come swooping in with a bag of money, or some stupid police action, and fix things. America is the most charitable nation on the planet, and the only thing we get in return is a slap in the face.

I might not be right but I dont recall Iraq asking for americas help
I'm tired of america trying to fix other countrys problems when america
still has problems

Originally Posted by: 1791I might not be right but I dont recall Iraq asking for americas help
I'm tired of america trying to fix other countrys problems when america
still has problems

Yea that's cuz they didnt ask for our help, and i'd like to know how many Iraqis think theyre better off now. Now that we're screwing everything up over there, we want to have their under-trained "soldiers" to pick up the slack. I just think its terrible that we as a country think that we can do whatever we want without persmission from anyone else...just cuz we're the US. We're just an arrogant country with an arrogant leader. Not to mention stubborn. Today Bush asks for billions more for the war and proposed trillions in tax cuts....how is he gonna pay for this again?

But i do think that we sorta have an obligation to help other counrties, Iraq just isnt that country. There's full-out genocide going on in The SUdan, but we're not helping them...we should be though. We've got people killing each other in L.A., Detroit, Baltimore, NYC over crack and petty things, and some that dont even know why theyre killing each other. We do have our own problems that needa be taken care of...

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonI hate the hypocrisy of the Christian right. They're an embarassment to Christians everywhere.

I dunno...I still think I'm kind of a nice guy in daily life...And I think Republican's may be right-wing, but they're a long site from fascism. If good things happen, you may want to avoid that tatoo, though. The forehead is probably not the best place for one. Good to see you're taking the loss well. Wait until 2012, then you guys can run Barak Obama. He'll kick the **** out of anyone we run.


Use them on the gov't if things go as bad as you think they will, hell, if it goes THAT bad, give me a call. We'll storm the fortress together. Liberal, conservative, who gives a ****? We've got AK-47s.

Jolly, I could never be angry at you bud. You voted for Bush in a blue state, I voted for Kerry in a red state. We're displaced, you and I, and that's our common bond. That, coupled with off-beat senses of humor and the love of 1980's nintendo music, would make us the greatest rock power duo of all time.

I'm so very worn out with discussing politics that I really don't care who's in the white house anymore. We may have differences of opinion politically speaking, but I extend the olive branch of friendship in the hopes that our divided country can find some common ground and quit arguing all the time. It's very tiresome.

Originally Posted by: 1791I might not be right but I dont recall Iraq asking for americas help
I'm tired of america trying to fix other countrys problems when america
still has problems

That's my whole point. We have our own problems, so why should we have to worry about the rest of the world? If Iraqis want to live under a muderous dictator, then I don't give a crap . . . as long as he doesn't bother us. We went in there to try to set up a democratic state, give them hope for the future, or some such nonsense, but all we get is a bunch of ingrates.