What can you do with a couple grand?

If you're interested, check out this punk/hardcore mix I just did in my studio. The studio is entirely digital, based around Cubase SX. I have only spent around $2,500 on the studio. If you like it, thanks. If not, tell me why and what problems you hear with the mixes. I enjoy a good critique. http://www.soundclick.com/oldfashioned

You asked for it! I'm gonna be brutally honest, since I don't see the musical value of new punk (I do have great respect for the Ramones, Clash, Sex Pistols, since they had a message, whether political or musical, whereas today's punk doesn't seem very deep, either musically or message-wise). I do appreciate its [u]emotional[/u] value (i.e. that it can fit a fun, angry, etc. mood) but you can only listen to so many three-power-chord songs.

So, here it is:

• Waaaaay too much screaming, growling, howling, grunting, other guttural noises for my taste.
  



• Interesting breakdown, although I expected it to kick back into the heavy bit. A smooth little guitar solo a la David Gilmour would sound pretty nice over top the chords/harmonics. Maybe even some gentler singing; it would help balance out the above-mentioned noises. Production is pretty good, but I couldn't really get past the screaming.
  



• If those lyrics posted on the site are the actual lyrics, they're pretty good. If they have meaning for you and aren't just a bunch of words that you think sounds cool/intelligent, then I have much respect for you as a lyricist. The only reason I have some doubt about their sincerity is the music.

Ok, thanks a lot for your input, and I can see where you are coming from. I, however, am not the vocalist. I am the lead guitarist and occasional backup vocalist. The interesting thing about our band is that everyone contributes something to each instrument. I have written 90% of the lyrics to some songs just as our drummer has come up with most of the guitar riffs on a couple jams. We figure that if each person has input on every instrument, then the songs will reflect every player's artistic vision.

I assure you that the words are incredibly sincere, almost embarrassingly so. I, too, am bothered by the folks out there going for face value on their lyrics and over all message, not paying attention to any deeper meaning that their music could hold.

I hear a lot of people complain about the screaming, and from a traditionalist's perspective I can see where you're coming from. My mom's parents hated it when the Beatle's screamed just as their parents hated Louie Armstrong's gravelly warble. The fact is that many people can't relate to new sound. Think of how many folks say rap is just noise and tastelessness, the exact same thing the white middle class said about jazz eighty years ago.

I was raised on blues, folk, rock, and classical music. My family loves everything from Etta James to Tom Waits to Wagner. I grew up with an open ear, and still couldn't take screaming until about two years ago. To see the musicality in a work, you have to ignore the stigma. Appreciate how something like screaming enhances the message just as much as a haunting string section, that is, if there is a message.

We were not writing new punk when we composed this song (along with the other songs we have written). We were collectively writing out a piece of our lives. I've never sat down and said, "I'm going to write a heavy song." Some songs are based around melodious swirling keyboards, another is just a sweet, soft acoustic ballad. Each song represents our emotions and our methods for letting go of everything inside of us. It's not about getting past the screaming, it's about staring it straight in the face and saying, "That is emotion, valid and unfiltered, exposed for me." There could be some soft melodic singing, but would that not depreciate the emotional value that you were stressing?

I can only stand so many three-chord songs, but by so many I really do mean SO MANY. With modern chromatic music, there are only 12 notes to choose from to convey your message. Three-chord songs can be just as engrossing as fifteen chord songs (Wild Thing a la Hendrix), but only if the underlying theme is powerful enough to take the listener past the lack of technical flashiness.

I hope you can take something away from this, and in turn, possibly take a little more away from the song. The meaning and creativity are there, just not in a traditional package. Please don't think that I do not appreciate your two cents, because I honestly do.

I listened to the song, I liked it. I've been in tons of emo/screamo bands in the last couple of years. I'd say you guys got some potential and probably would be pretty decent live show. The quality of the mix was good but I can only listen to it on lo-fi do to ****ty internet connection. I can't give you a proper critique there, but I will give you something from a listeners prospective. I do it not directing at your style but your music since your last post.

I like what the drummer did in the beginning, different and pretty cool. :) The guitars over top of that drum part is a different story. Good guitar parts but to me it didn't stick well with the drum part. A tip, having 3 great parts stacked on top of each other doesn't produce a great effect in music, there's no unity. Good music is when everything can produce one solid idea, and that evolves as time progresses. When you have a cool part that you like on one instrument, roll with that. Then once you have emphasized that idea for a while then bring in the guitar parts, and allow everything else to back that up.

Second, the beginning idea and the end, which alone was pretty cool, were both good. However the middle parts broke the musical flow. That's the most important thing in composing, you must not break the musical flow. Music from beginning to end must go on convincingly. Surpises are a mistake, especially for the person who is really getting into what your doing. It's a disappointment when you get into some music then sudden it drops like a stone.

Third, the ending was alittle drawn out, and got stagnant. Eggman had the answer, try introducing some thing new. It doesn't have to be something strong, like a solo (I would have like alittle Flyodness there too :) ) or singing, maybe a light cello as the music starts to fade out.

Again these are just things I see wrong basically in the arrangement of the music. The individual ideas in the music itself are good. The arrangement could use alittle work.

Ok, I get what you guys are saying, good point(s). Thanks a lot for your insight. However, if you do not like breaks in musical flow, then you're going to hate some of the other stuff that we are about to upload. I'll post it here when we put up the next song so you guys can dissect that one for me. I'm really interested in your views, and I can say that both you and Eggman have had valuable advice from the listener perspective. Thank you very much.

Cool, I'll look forward to it. You guys really aren't that bad of a screamo band. I didn't hate the middle part, it's just that you had a good focus at first, then it changed (which was cool), but then it changed again into the guitar solo (the solo was cool). Too much stopping and starting new ideas in a short period of time is what broke the musical flow, especially since each of these parts where contrasting in several different areas.

Awesome, thanks for the good words. Well the next song will be up in a week or two. It's disturbingly all over the place. There is a ska part right before an ultra-hardcore breakdown. Handclaps, epic chorus, it's the least focused song ever (but I love it for that reason). Some people have called it progressive, you'll have to pass your own judgement. We're waiting to post it because the CD with these songs comes out next week and we don't want to reveal too much of our recorded material before the CD comes out.

well to tell u the truth, i listen to cryptopsy and slayer..and taking back sunday..what a mix of bands..well yeah so i can take the screaming..i LOVE the ending it reminds me of everlast..good job and keep on keepin on lifes a garden dig it make it work for ya

Wow, thanks a lot man. If you like all of those bands then you are seriously going to be into the next couple songs. Our drummer is a die-hard Slayer fan (along with every other metal band), so there is a ton of heavy riffage on some songs. Expect a post with a new song soon.

yes i play raining blood alot \m/ muahahha....i love that song

I'm not going to say anything about the musical side of this recording since I don't know too much about this kind of music... plus this is the "recording" section of the forum, I'm sure you were aiming for some more reactions on the actual production of the recording.

Anyway, overall the recording sounds very clean and clear...way to go!

kick drum: I would have given it some more low end and "click" in order to leave more room for bass and guitars, it sounds like whoever mixed it tried to do this but didn't really get it spot on

guitars: they sound a bit sharp/harsh to my ears...a little less highs and a bit more mids would make it easier on the ears

vocals: there's not much you can do to increase intelligibility during the screaming, but it's too bad the clean vocals kind of get lost in the mix, they just don't poke through and aren't very clear

Alright, I have to totally agree, SPL. The bass drum was an endless problem, I blame it on the ****ty preamps (all Mackie). I don't know why but there is this upper-midrange spike to those guitars, I'm assuming it's cause all of the guitars were on their bridge pickups. It's funny but that harshness wasn't there until AFTER mastering. The vocals are just tough. They are so dynamic and you can only ride the fader so much until you have to resort to compression. It was kind of an "either over-compress or deal with unintelligibility" kind of deal. Great analysis of the recording, man. Thanks. I want your take on the next stuff when I get it up.

Originally posted by wiredstudios
The vocals are just tough. They are so dynamic and you can only ride the fader so much until you have to resort to compression.

Next time you record a song that includes both screams and clean vocals, try recording the different types of vocals on seperate tracks(if you have some tracks to spare that is). This will make it a lot easier to control each kind of voice since you can give them each the treatment that's best for them in stead of having to compromise both(screams and clean)...

Anyway, bring on the next one, I love doing this.

Word. Track number was becoming a problem so I did have to consolidate tracks, I guess vocals weren't a good place to try to cut the fat. Thanks again man. Thanks to all of you for the great constructive criticism.