Bad rhythm?

My friend agreed with some others that I'm not good at rhythm or somthing to that effect.What the hell?I play fuc*ing metal/thrash/grind where as my friends play punk!What the fuc*?I know none of you have heard me play,but I would assume that some of you would have a vague idea of what I play.I know I dont SUCK...I'm not a virtuoso or anything but GEEZ!I'm taking this critism to hard I guess,but this is really the first negative feedback ive got for my talent on guitar.I know I shouldnt make such a deal out of it since only ONE of them play guitar,one drums and the other a little bass and all enjoy punk and can't appreciate complex music(thats not a generalization...its a sad truth)I told my friend "are you kidding?I'd like to see you play half the stuff I do!Can you even comprehend the rhythms I make/play/listen to?" and he just laughed and said "theres rythms in the music/stuff you play?"(this a the first time weve "confronted" each other about whos better on guitar)...he knew I was drunk(i still am)...I then procceded to apologize and he said that it was good we were being honest with each other about one anothers faults..which he was right.It still bugs the hell out of me though...At the same time I feel bad becuase ive always been humble when people ask who is better at guitar and I always reply "were both good at what we do"...I know and he knows I'm better at all fronts on guitar(not braging or boasting...I hate this)When he criticized me,it brought me to blurt out "I'm better than you"...I feel like sh*t.We both sat down and wrote some stuff and it all was a big laugh,but it..like I said,still bugs me.

later...

The strange thing with rhythm is you can think your really tight and have a good sense of it, when actually you can be alittle sloppy. Not sloppy to where you don't get the rhythm right, but your timing on each note can waver alittle bit. This is because your mind has it's own sense of rhythm like when you count, and no one counts 1, 2, 3... at exactly the same time. When your playing with other people, everybody has to count at the same time. I'm pretty sure you understand what I'm saying. The reason why they might say you have bad rhythm is because you may have a hard time playing along with another persons rhythm (counting thing), but your really good with your own rhythm sense. You might be dislocating yourself from the band (not knowing it) by playing to your own rhythm and not the bands. The most common mistake in amatuer bands. The #1 thing to concern yourself with in a band is to listen to each other and play the rhythm at the same time. In a band, the drummer is always the guy who keeps the time. So if he/she says your off, your off and you should remedy this. The best way to get better at rhythm is to always play along with a metronome or drum machine when you practice. Simply because your learn to play along with a time that's not in your head. It will also sharpen the rhythm in your head.

I know I don't take criticism very well either (probably my biggest fault) but you shouldn't let your own ego lead you to be blind to it. Take it and work on it, it's worth it dewd. :)

> ..he knew I was drunk(i still am)...

one thing I learned years ago....never post when you're drunk.

I know I dont have bad rhythm.Every time we play together it sounds great...I think the dissagreement is in the way I prefer the rhythm to go(I dont experiment in the middle of songs and mess up the whole band or anything).My friend has a strumming technique that he universally applys to everything he/we play.I find it makes all our stuff sound way too similar so sometimes I present different rhythm options to the band...I usually hear "the lyrics wont fit with that rhythm" which is total bull.My friend/s are so scared to do somthing slightly different from the stagnant formula that theres no room for creative expansion(not the crappy kind with sampled trippy beats or anything).He said something very contradictory though...I said to him "What genre is this band going to fit" and he replied "break the genre".Theres no genre breaking going on in our music,I can tell you that much.Hes way to "hook" crazy and it somehow crosses over into the verses we make."3 chords,same rhythm,different song" is his musical drive.If your wondering "he" is my best friend and other main voice in the band.All in all...I'm sober now and realize its not so much my actual rhythm,but my ideas that dont stick with them.Its like a chemist that wants to try a different formula or see what happens with different ingredients and being told "why would you want do that?Stick to the formula!"...alright,that was a bad analogy.

Later! \m/

maybe u need to find different jam mates..if ur 'friends' have no room for expansion.

and if u know you dont have bad rythm why should it bother u that someone else - who you think isnt in your league anyway cus u play trash/grind/metal and they play punk, who also happen to not have a creative repertoire - thinks you're not good at rythm.

and So what, when u play/jam, and/or practice you're learning so ur gonna get better anyway, theres always room for mistakes and improvement.

I totally know what you mean man. I've quit some many bands because I was not satisfied with what was going on musically. And when I tried to bring something new into the mix, I got to hear the same words. I was younger at the time and now I have learned somethings that might help. I'm not taking anyone's side despite what I will write, just trying to help and hopefully present something that you and your friends can see as common ground.

About the lyrics won't fit the rhythm, there is some substance to this. When the vocals enter, the music should back the vocals, not the other way around. You don't wanna do anything extra here that will pull any attention away from the vocals, rather you should find a rhythm that will support it. I understand what you mean by the rhythm always being the same, which is usually caused by the singer using his guitar to kept time. Using by strumming 8th notes alot, right? A good way to remedy this is by first singing the vocal line accapella (without any music, like 4 black guys on a street corner and philly). Then once you get a good rhythm and melody for the vocal line, have the lead singer keep singing it while you come up with something on the guitar. Remember your backing it up, restrain from doing anything that might pull attention away from the vocals. There are always vocal breaks where you can add your thing on the guitar. Trust me if you approach it like this your songs will be alot more structured, and better. You'll probably get to add the rhythms you want and you guy's should be happy on both ends. It's worked great for me.

About using 3 chords, use that as the structure of the song. Some of the greatest songs were written with 3 chords and it's where all great songwritters start. It's how you use them that makes them great songs though. Even the chord progression G - C- D has infinite possibilities and you can create something new with it (like you want). Your friends sounds like a songwritter first. Most songwritters will just play the same rhythm using common chord progressions because there goal is to write a good song not a musically extravagant song. Nothing wrong with that either. It's just you guys need to understand the job each one of you guys are gonna perform in the band, and work together to make the big picture. I'm guessing your gonna be the one to make the music great, so my advice is to take what the other guy does (like g-c-d c.p) and make the music alittle better using the structure he gives you. I hope you understand.

Another thing, since you meantioned your more of a metal dewd and your friends are more or less into punk. Check out the band "broken bones". These guys were together before slayer and all those other thrash bands, and there music is pretty much thrash punk. It's not the greatest music but it might help you get a picture on how punk and metal can work together.

Thanks noticing.I totally understand.Ive dealt with the three chord thing since ive played with people and have a good habit of harmonizing and octave above/below or anywhere relative.I'm a big "riff" man and I really pay little attention to lyrics.The lyrics are what people that dont play anything in depth connect/relate to.Its especially true in pop punk...even if the lyrics are cliche.I just keep thinking of those few people in the back row that do play something saying like "these guys suck..they'er nothing special...what a lame/recycled riff!"...how do I know some people would react this way?Because I'm one of them.I'm my biggest critic...every song could be more deep,technical,faster,melodic,precise,timeless e.c.t.I just found out we should be able to shoot a video to our "1# hit" somtime next month and record the album(some material still in progress)...this very song could very well land us somwhere...big or not...its one of those songs you might here 20 times a day on the radio.Sorting through my mind ive found the problem...know what it is?The pressure is on...

Yeah me too man, I think we’re always our own worst critic but that’s what drives us to get better. I know if I sit down and play a riff for awhile I start to add more and more stuff making it more and more technical. One thing I learned to take into consideration is when to be complex and when not to be, like the thing with the vocals. There needs to be a balance in music, meaning one thing needs to be in the foreground at a given time while everything else needs to back that up in the background. Writing a well balanced song is knowing what will be in the foreground at that given time. The things you mentioned above determine what will be in the foreground. The fastest, most technical, melodic part will always take the foreground. If the vocals or another instrument takes the foreground, the right thing to do is back it up. Just as if you were going to do a guitar solo, you wouldn’t want the bass player and drummer to try to do a solo also. You would much rather have them back you up. As you can see it’s a give and take relationship when you work with a band. So you don’t have to write everything so crazy to have a good song, it’s cool to play something simple too. If not just write an instrumental. Trust me you’ll always have time to show off your skills and shine. There will always be people who will talk sh*t, that’s part of it, just don’t dwell on it too much and worry about writing good music. If the other guys in the band aren’t happy with what you put to the music then you should look for people who will.

About the lyrics, if they come before the music is written don’t be afraid to check them out. Usually you will find hints in there that give you an idea of what to play on the guitar. i.e. If the lyrics are sad and somber, it would be a good idea to write a slow sad riff that sounds depressing. Of course you can do the opposite if your writing a comical song. But it’s good to have the lyrics and the music say the same thing, if not the song is incomprehensible and most likely won’t be a “hit”.

A stab at your question. It sounds like every other song on the radio. Hopefully you got a few songs on there that have some of your ideas. Otherwise it’s not worth it.

Yeah I have jammed with guys like that, I had one who played his acoustic through a distortion pedal. URGH!! I never got him to realize it sounded like crap either. On an electric you can get a good sound playing chords if you use a lighter overdrive. Which is really good for a rhythm guitar, and then have the lead use heavy distort. This tends to be a nice balance but then again. It depends on the style of music your playing and the sound your going after.

It would be a good idea for you to learn the notes on the fret board, there are several benefits but mostly for your own knowledge of the instrument. Just start off easy, by learning the names of each string when you hear them. You probably already know them from reading tab but knowing there sound is relatively easy to learn too. Once you got that, start learning them up to the 5th fret. You’ll benefit from this one quickly because most chord shapes are in this area. And if you know the lowest note in the chord, that’s usually it’s root. Yeah there are inversions but those are easy to recognize when you learn all the chords. Ok the easiest way to learn the notes up to the 5th fret is by doing your chromatic scale and humming the note as you go.


e:---------------------------------------------------0-1-2-3-4--
b:-----------------------------------------0-1-2-3-4------------
g:-------------------------------0-1-2-3-4----------------------
d:---------------------0-1-2-3-4--------------------------------
a:-----------0-1-2-3-4------------------------------------------
e:-0-1-2-3-4----------------------------------------------------
e f # g # a # b c # d # e f # g # a # b b c # d # e f # g #


Ok. When you see a “#” sign you just sing the previous letter plus sharp for that note, so the 2nd fret on the low E is “F sharp”. Hopefully that makes sense, it looked funny when they were smashed together. Also, you may notice that b was written twice, it’s not a typo. The 4th fret on the G string is B and so is the open B string, you probably know that from tuning if you use that tuning method. Just making sure. :)

Just run through that before you do your chromatic scale exercise and remember to hum the note when you play it. This is an excellent ear training exercise, because you’ll begin to match the name of the note with the pitch. You probably won’t get Absolute pitch from this alone, but your ability find the right pitches will grow even stronger. Naming them and more requires much more training, but this is a exercise to get a skill you said you've failed at. It's not hard either as it flourishes naturally. Also remember to go back down too ;), and just go threw this once a day maybe twice or more if you feel like it. Then go and do your normal scale exercises. It’s good to do this exercise with your other scales also.

Then once you become familiar with that exercise continue down the fret board. This time you’ll start from the 5th fret, 5-6-7-8-9. Then go on to the 10th fret and so on. Once you get to the 12th fret and beyond you’ll realize that the notes for the string repeat so you should already know the notes above the 12th fret also. Go threw it just to stabilize it though, and once you do you’ll know all the notes on your fret board. And you’ll never have to do this exercise again if you don’t want to, cause you don’t really lose this knowledge.

Remember you probably won’t get Absolute pitch, but you’ll gain the ability to hear a pitch and know relatively or maybe exactly where it is on the guitar.

it sucks when ppl see holes in your playing, especially when they're not justified. The singer in my old band was terrible for that. He wasnt musically talented at all, he can barely sing and nobody else in the band likes him much. But when we would jam, it seemed to be him that had ultimate veto power, if HE didnt like a riff or a song, we didnt play it. It sucks when someone who cant even play the guitar, is criticising your playing.
He would act like a little child if any of us told him his vocals or lyrics werent good enough. He was all smug after we recorded our demo, as his vocals sounded alright. Mainly because me, the other guitarist and the engineer who owned the studio, spent 3 hours pro-tooling his vocals to make em fit better!
He also had no sense of rhythmn, sometimes simple count-ins were too much for him, he frequently came in too early/late, and couldnt understand certain riff timing ideas, (think glassjaw - pretty lush) he couldnt hear the difference... what a total fool.
The scary thing, is that the band is still going, and apparently had some label interest from Sony! jesus wept!