Getting past scales with same notes

Ok, I realized that I've been asking the wrong question regarding scales all along. I just examined some fretboard charts of various scales (lydian, locrian, aeolian, dorian, phrygian, etc) and realized I know virtually every scale. And, it turns out, I've been using every scale within my shredding. So, for example, I know every scale I can use in the key of E. The problem I've tried to illustrate before, however, is that every single scale still seems to share the exact same notes. I can noodle all the way up and down the fret board with these various scales, but the notes are always the same. Am I making sense here? What I am saying is, I can come up with various arpeggios, note combinations, tricks, and whatever....but it's always the same notes. How do I break free from the notes in these scales? Do I write chord progressions underneath my soloing that defy the traditional progressions within any particular key? Basically, switching between scales within the same key still sounds the same to me, because each scale still utilizes the same notes.

Ultimately, I am not unhappy with my soloing ability. I would just like to expand on more ambient concepts. Any suggestions?

Ok, I just found the 'whole tone' scale. That's kind of what I'm talking about. That's messed up. Sounds very unorthodox...and kind of jazzy.

Let me be the first to hop on the bandwagon, are you saying that all modes with the same root note have all the same notes in them? You may want to re-examine your concept of modes, I have a feeling that you are missing something......

Ok, perhaps each scale within the same key signature doesn't have the exact same notes, but they do *share* the same notes. I mean, none of the scales I mentioned previously deviate from the note structures found within the root. While not every scale offers the exact same notes, they all share the same note groupings. Am I being clearer? I mean, I fly around the fretboard and it sounds like a flurry of notes. Herein lies the problem. I want something that sounds more unorthodox....other-worldly. So, my question is, what is a way to make the solo more unique. Should I go up a half-step or down a half-step somewhere within the solo to make it sound more bizarre? Or should I use chromatic runs? I want to make something that sounds a little more disjointed because I am actually tired of the fluid sound produced by most scales that I know.

Nevermind, I guess I'm not quite sure what I meant myself :P Ideally, I just wanted to change the key signature within a solo and still have it sound fluid, but yet different.

Try using the Jazz theory of playing scales in relation to chords. So if your playing over a Gmaj - Cmaj - Dmaj, harmonize it with G major, C lydian, and D mixolydian. Now just concern yourself for now with the simple structure of the chord, don't worry about 7th's and 9th or whatever. Take the first chord G major, made up of G, B, and D.

G major - G, B, D

Now fill in the rest of the notes.

G major - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G

Now alter them in any way you like, flatten or sharp random notes. Try recording a loop of a G major chord and play it back and mess with and experiment with each note over the loop. Find the harmonies that you are looking for because only you know what your looking for. You may come up with something like.

G major - G, Ab, B, C#, D, Eb, F, G

it's even cool to have 2 notes the same like.

G major - G, Ab, Bb, B, C#, D, Eb, F, G

Whatever you come up with will be the sound your looking for. Then do the same for a minor chord. Now about extensions of chords like 7th's and 9th. Just alter the appropriate note to fit the chord.

Say you have a G major 7th chord. Just alter your scale like this, so the 7th becomes a major seventh.

G major 7th - G, Ab, B, C#, D, Eb, F# (instead of F), G

Hopefully that makes sense and it helps you find the sound your looking for.

Ok, I usually don't like shredders, but you seem cool since you use scales, so I'll see if I can help you.

Ok, if your soloing is getting boring, you should try putting some rythem into it. My guitar teacher was talking about using a sort of "swing rythem" when you solo to blues or rock. So like, when you're playing in 4/4 time you make the first note long, the second short, the third long, and the fourth short. So that it won't be the same length over and over, which could get boring. You could also try other lengths, and maybe discover a new style of shredding.

For notes, the scales you listed are all modes, so they all share notes acording to their root scale Ex: A in aeolian has the same notes as a C major scale (ionian) Most people look at the scales like you do and think "They're all the same notes, whats the diff?" well the difference is the order of the notes you play, which give the scale its sound. So if you play a C major scale, its all happy, but when you play A in aeolian its a much sadder sound. Also, another difference are the chords you play underneath it. So if it sounds the same as a C major chord, then you're doing it wrong. Of course if that isn't enough, the chromatic scale is really all you need, from a jazz point of view anyway. There's only 12 notes in music, so of course your always gonna use the the same notes, its just the way you play it that gives it a new sound.

I don't know if you always shred, but if you wanna sound different, maybe try slowing down and hold your notes out as long as you can. Its much harder to play a long note that sounds good then it is to play short fast notes. Or mix the two and get an awsome solo out of it, start slow and end fast to get your audience excited, or start out fast and end slow, to make a more sad solo. There is an excellent example of the end slow type solo that is on a Red Hot Chili Peppers DVD, umm I think the DVD is called "off the map" and the song is "I could have lied." It's an awsome solo.

I've only been playing for year and a half, so I might have made a mistake. I hope this helps...

Shredders use scales you idiot, they just do it really really quickly.

Umm yea the good ones, most shredders that I know don't know scales, they just play random notes, and tell people they can play guitar. Thats why I don't really like shredders. And don't call me an idiot dumbass.

Originally posted by Jolly McJollyson
Shredders use scales you idiot, they just do it really really quickly.

Hey, you're not into apocalyptic prophecies are you? What's 2/3 times 1000 minus 2/3?