Which Scale to use with which tune?


Displacer
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Displacer
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01/23/2003 5:58 am
I recently learnt most (or all) the scales using something called 'the box theory'

anyway, I never know which scale to use when im soloing, i mean, some just plain dont fit whilst others do, and I'd like to use all of them and just solo all day if i can.

I wanted to know, which scales do i use for certian songs? is there any theory behind it? coz its something I just dont understand. if there is some secret or method behind it please help me out, anymore tips and things for scales that you might have would be helpful too

thanks a lot!

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# 1
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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01/23/2003 5:30 pm
There's no real big theory behind it. Scales are basically used to harmonize over certain chords. So first you must understand what chords are being used so you can choose the appropriate scale or scales. So say you have a chord progression like this:

Dm/ G7/ Bdim7/ Cmaj

Now you could approach this several ways. You could just play a C major scale over it. Or you could break it up so that you play a different scale for each chord.

Dm- play D dorian mode
G7- G mixolydian mode
Bdim7- B whole-half scale
Cmaj6- C major scale

Now here's how you come up with this. Take a look at the chord progression and you can see it easily fits with in the C major scale. The C major scales contains these chords,
Cmaj, Dm, Em, Fmaj, G7, Am, Bdim. 3 out of 4 of those chords are there, the only one that isn't exactly the same is the Bdim7. The Bdim is there, the seventh is just added for harmony purposes.

Ok now the first chord, the Dm. Which is the second chord in the C major scale. What is the second mode of the C major scale. It's Dorian, so you use it over the Dm chord. It's actually still the C major scale, your just using a different root.

Now the second chord the G7, and in the case of C major: it's called the Dominant Seventh Chord. There are quite a few scales that work nicely over this chord, but none as good as the Mixolydian. Since it is the 5th mode in the C major scale.

Next is the Bdim7. This chord is rather unique when it comes to chords. It's a symetrical chord, so your going to want to use a symetrical scale over this chord. The one I chose is the Whole-Half tone scale, which works great with a dim7 chord. The others are Whole Tone, Half-Whole Tone, and Diminished Whole Tone scales. The Whole Tone scale also works great over dim7 chords. The Diminished Whole Tone works well, but I would chose one of the other two first since it leans more towards altered chords (#9) . The Half-Whole Tone also works better for altered Dominant chords (b9 chords).

Last the C maj, well that's easy. The C major scale is your best bet. It's also finished the on the key of the song, which is very good idea.

Now if you want more info, I suggest looking into Chord and Scale formulas. If your looking for the theory end of this, that is where it is. It's too much to write on just one post, but here is one example. Taking the Bdim7 chord and the B whole tone scale. Here's how it works:

Bdim7 formula: 1, b3, b5, bb7
B whole half tone scale: 1, 2, b3, 4, b5, b6, 6, 7

Look at the similarities, they both have 1 (obviously), a b3, and a b5. The components of a diminshed chord. The bb7 on the other hand is also the same note as a 6, and the scale contains a 6 so your ok. No scale is written with double flats, so it's usually written as one number below. As you can also see there are two 6's in the scale, one flattened and one natural. The flattened one is used more as leading tone to the natural 6.

Hope this helps. Latr
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 2
Christoph
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Christoph
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01/23/2003 6:11 pm

You should learn the three-note-per-string method for the scales. You'll be alot better off in the long run.

# 3
chris mood
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chris mood
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01/24/2003 4:18 am
whats the box scale concept?
# 4
Christoph
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Christoph
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01/24/2003 5:21 am

I think he means the "caged" system . . . where you play all the scales in the space of 4 frets.

I've found that the three-note sweeping concept (from Gambale) works a lot better, especially when playing fast stuff.

# 5
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01/26/2003 10:13 am
I think I need more help, for one I have no idea how modes work. I'm doing pretty well considering i never studied music though :P hehe

but if someone can explain it to me, in laymens terms if possible how the scales, modes, chords and everything goes together it would help a lot

also, that three-note sweeping concept sounds good, where can i find info on that?

thanks for replying to my message, it was a big help, but i still need more :(

seeya guys!

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# 6
Christoph
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Christoph
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01/26/2003 6:12 pm
Search this forum on the topic of modes, etc. This has been explained hundreds of times on here.


Edit: Forgot to mention, if you're interested in the whole sweeping concept, check out Frank Gambale . . . http://www.frankgambale.com


[Edited by Christoph on 01-26-2003 at 12:15 PM]
# 7

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