Hey I wrote a post regarding the CAGE system then decided to try Christophers major scale lesson.
The first pattern he mentions, with the index on the root note - I can't find this pattern anywhere? Is there an established pattern system because I've learnt the pattern (which Christopher mentions as the second pattern) as the first. It's confusing that there's lots of conflicting info about this!
Thanks
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0Hey I wrote a post regarding the CAGE system then decided to try Christophers major scale lesson.[/quote]In that tutorial I'm teaching the C major scale formula. And I'm also demonstrating how the guitar works. And part of the structure of the guitar is that you can play the same note in more than one place. That's an important part of understanding how the guitar works.
The result is that you can play the major scale in a variety of shapes.
Notice that I start by showing you the major scale all stretched out on one string. This helps to visualize the intervals. And that's important because the interval formula is the most important aspect the scale (of any scale). That's why it sounds the way it does, because of the distances between the notes.
Then I show you how that formula can be applied in a variety of ways on the guitar.
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0The first pattern he mentions, with the index on the root note - I can't find this pattern anywhere?[/quote]You can find it in my lesson. :) But more seriously, where are you looking & not finding?
[quote=iiiiiii-0]Is there an established pattern system because I've learnt the pattern (which Christopher mentions as the second pattern) as the first.
I systematically establish 4 patterns in that tutorial.
1. C major scale on one string.
2. C major scale with root note in the lowest position.
3. C major scale with root note in the middle position.
4. C major scale with root note in the highest position.
I've seen different instructors (on GT, on the internet, in person) label them with different numbers, or in different ways. So there is no industry standard on how that's done. That's why I teach it in a very systematic way to help you understand the scale no matter how someone plays it or shows it.
Do you understand that all those shapes I'm showing in the tutorial result in the same sound? The sound of the C major scale?
[quote=iiiiiii-0]It's confusing that there's lots of conflicting info about this!
Where are you looking & getting conflicting information?
Hope this helps!
Hi thank you so much for your reply it's a great series however this aspect is confusing to me.
So the lesson series I'm looking at is here:
https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14044&s_id=453
I'm looking online at major scale patterns and can't find a pattern which follows pattern 1 in this series. For example the 5 7 9 on the 6th string. I can't find any patterns across the internet that follow this pattern.
For an example of this, see images below. I guess I'm just getting confused because I can't find this pattern.
I hope this makes sense. I've tried to word it as best I can. I'm interested to hear your feedback on this :) Thank you!
with the above patterns ( coming from the CAGED system and yes, learning from two different systems is confusing ) remember that from the fifth pattern the last 2 frets are the exact and overlapping notes from the first 2 frets of the first pattern, best way to get your head around this is to draw all the notes of a scale on an empty fretboard and outline each pattern there and then you will see what Chris playes.
The disadvantage from the CAGED system is to get over the barier presented between adjacent patterns and then being able to play all over the fretboard without even thinking of patterns.
Best way is to stick with one system and the GT system learns you to play all over the fretboard without any problems that the CAGED system has.
Herman
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0Hi thank you so much for your reply it's a great series however this aspect is confusing to me. So the lesson series I'm looking at is here:https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14044&s_id=453[/quote][p]Okay, thanks for the reference! In that series of lesson, watch the 2nd lesson again. I describe how the major scale is built from a series of intervals (specific distances).
https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=11291&s_id=453
Then I show how that interval formula can be played in many different locations. And another purpose of that specific lesson is to show how you can play repeating octaves of the same shape across the fretboard.
With all that in mind let's consider the image you uploaded. Why are all those dots in those places? Why do they make those shapes instead of other shapes? Why & how do the shapes connect? What happens when I get to the last box?
This is part of the problem with drawing big patterns of lots of dots but not actually explaining anything. It's one thing that I think a lot of guitar sites & instructors do that is unhelpful.
So let's clarify the shapes by editing the image.
This image is from my modes across the fretboard tutorial, because that's really what you are referring to here.
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=370
[quote=iiiiiii-0]I'm looking online at major scale patterns and can't find a pattern which follows pattern 1 in this series. For example the 5 7 9 on the 6th string. I can't find any patterns across the internet that follow this pattern.
That's because some guitar instructors & sites don't teach the patterns in an integrated manner. They just show you a bunch of dots & patterns with no context or explanation.
And as Herman mentions, it's one of the problems with CAGED. For what it's worth, Tom Hess is less sympathetic than I am about this issue. And he explicitly calls it out on this page.
https://tomhess.net/WhyTheCAGEDSystemHurtsYourGuitarPlaying.aspx
But it's not as if either pattern is wrong. They are both ways to make the major scale pattern on the fretboard. Some are more helpful than others in playing certain musical patterns. Some are more helpful than others in understanding the layout of the major scale.
This is why I think it's helpful for students to start at the beginning & really grasp the major scale interval formula before diving into huge patterns with lots of dots & no explanations! Start here:
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363
Hope that helps!
Thank you so much! Apologies it's taken me a while to reply. I will definitley look at your modes course and also the article you posted by Tom Hess.
Just to clarify the CAGE system and the patterns you teach are the same patterns, just taught in a different way?
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0Thank you so much! Apologies it's taken me a while to reply. I will definitley look at your modes course and also the article you posted by Tom Hess.[/quote][p]I think it might be more beneficial to simply start with my C major scale for beginners. We've gone quite a distance down this rabbit hole & I think you are missing some very basic, fundamental scale concepts. So before you start trying to cover the fretboard with complex patterns, try this:
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363
[quote=iiiiiii-0]Just to clarify the CAGE system and the patterns you teach are the same patterns, just taught in a different way?
Yes, they are all just different ways of looking at the patterns that notes make on the guitar. I think CAGED can be useful. But without understand the basic concept of a major scale it can be misleading because it doesn't necessarily explain why those shapes exist.
Have a look at that tutorial I linked above!
OK I will look at that. Before you replied, I took a look at your modes course and noticed the Ionian pattern you mentioned is similar to the pattern mentioned above however only for the first octave
https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10741&s_id=370
It seems to be using a combination of two different patterns?
Argh, definitley down the rabbit hole. I'm used to the musical theory aspect of TTSTTTS
however not with the guitar, so will also look at the first course you mentioned!
Thanks again :D
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0Before you replied, I took a look at your modes course and noticed the Ionian pattern you mentioned is similar to the pattern mentioned above however only for the first octave[/quote]Yes, but only in the first lesson. And later in that same tutorial I explain how to use an alternate pattern to play the same notes in a different configuration.
https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10749&s_id=370
Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0It seems to be using a combination of two different patterns?Yes, that's what I was trying to explain when I mentioned how to combine the 5th & 1st pattern you posted. Look above at my my reply, post #5 in this thread.
[quote=iiiiiii-0]Argh, definitley down the rabbit hole. I'm used to the musical theory aspect of TTSTTTS however not with the guitar, so will also look at the first course you mentioned!
Please do! A lot of what seems to be giving you trouble is the fact that you can play the same note in more than one place on the guitar. The result is that there are a variety of ways to play the major scale when you apply the intervals to the guitar. I explain that in detail while using the major scale!
