I've been reading up on ear training since it seems like something I should really start doing now that I'm getting the notes on the fretboard down.
For every musician out there seems to be a different approach :-(. Most methods emphasize the importance of learing to sing the notes and the intervals. Is this really necessary? I very much don't like to sing...probably because I don't like my voice. I have no plans on singing to accompany my guitar playing either :-).
Also, is practicing scale patterns a component and/or form of ear training? Since I've been practicing the major and pentatonic scales for many years, I can tell immediately if I've hit a bad note in it. Hand me a minor scale or one of the modes, and it's just a string of notes to me...
I'm trying to fit a plan together for myself with this and I'm not sure exactly where to begin...and where exactly I'm trying to go. I'm told that developing one's ear is key to well rounded and melodic improvisation.
Thanks!
Singing really required for ear training?
# 1
Originally Posted by: maggior Most methods emphasize the importance of learing to sing the notes and the intervals. Is this really necessary? [/QUOTE]
I think so. You need to know, from the note that you're playing, what the next note is you're going for. Otherwise you're just randomly picking notes from the scale, staying within the pattern, and hoping that what you pick sounds "good". Remember in that info I sent you, I suggested you play the one pattern over the Bm Blues jam, really focusing on the those two extra notes so you could get used to how they sound, and where they might fit?
Here's another thing you can do... have a backing track playing, and just hum or sing a solo over top of it. You don't have to sing well, just as long as you can hear the melody. Now, trying playing it on your guitar. Starting from rock bottom, you play a note, and "hear" the next one before you go to play it... is it:
-Higher or lower than the note you just played? (lets say its higher).
-how high? An octave higher? More? Less than an octave? (its less than an octave).
-ok, less than an octave... stop that backing track if its distracting you... don't forget the note you played, and the note that is in your head... now, does it sound like anything you know? (now that you mention it, the note I'm playing and the note I hear sound just like the first two notes of "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star")
-ok, that's a perfect 5th... now FIND that note on your guitar... play it... there you go!
Practicing the intervals will make this easier, I need to work on this too.
[QUOTE=maggior]
Also, is practicing scale patterns a component and/or form of ear training?
In my opinion, not with out droning the root note or using the root as a pedal tone, or playing the scale to a backing track. Just playing the scale itself isn't really going to train your ear; your hands, yes, but not so much the ears. You really need context to hear a mode's distinctive sound, or, at least I find that I do.
I can't remember if I already mentioned this in a previous post, but I have a little drum & bass line programmed into my DR880. It starts in Cmaj. I play a Cmaj riff. Then, the bass switches to Amin. I just keep playing the same riff, and its sounds like I'm playing in Amin, even though only the bass line has changed. Playing "root to root" on any given mode may give you a idea of how that mode sounds, but what you're playing a mode against is really what defines it. Hope that helps!
# 2
Maybe I'm after multiple things here and I don't realize it.
The major scale is something embedded in my brain - probably most are this way and they don't realize it. Slipin, you actually point this out in the material you had sent me. Adding the notes to the standard minor pentatonic shape builds on this. I see the value there, but it's specific to that particular situation and is just the beginning of breaking into richer tonal pallette.
This is an example of being able to recognize notes that will fit well into a given musical context. That's the end goal!
I'm trying to figure out a more generalized approach. I hear a series of notes playing in the major scale and I can recognize it. If I play the major scale and hit an incorrect note, I immediately know that note doesn't belong. Can I do the same for the minor scale? No. How do I get there?
Something Joe Satriani said in the "free lesson" video I posted recently really stuck with me. Paraphrasing, he said "practicing scales up and down in a non-musical way rots the brain". So I don't want to do that. So I can see the backing track being useful. He did it over his "student" droning a note at I recall. A pedal tone like you suggest could work for that too.
So this would be a way of learning and recognizing the modes.
So do I choose some of the more widely used modes, and practice them? Using the pedal tone, I get interval training...that seems important. (Another of Joe's suggestions come to mind - figure out which ones appeal to me...)
An approach I have in mind is to transcribe melodies and solos. Doesn't matter if its jazz, pop music, whatever...as long as the tempo isn't so crazy that it's a blur. I can think of a bunch of solo Andy Summers that would be great for this. Kind of Blue by Miles Davis would be cool too. That I know is based on modes. This gives me some musical context, something I hear without having to sing, and I need to find it on my guitar.
However, Chris Schlagel rightly pointed out that if I'm not familiar with the mode or scale being used, it's like trying to read without having learned the alphabet yet.
Maybe the issue is I don't know what I need to learn in this area...I don't know what I don't know :-). It's a little frustrating.
The bottom line is this: I have a clear plan well under way to learn the notes on the fretboard, I have a plan I'm working to better understand the rhythmic of soloing, but I don't have a well defined plan in this area.
The major scale is something embedded in my brain - probably most are this way and they don't realize it. Slipin, you actually point this out in the material you had sent me. Adding the notes to the standard minor pentatonic shape builds on this. I see the value there, but it's specific to that particular situation and is just the beginning of breaking into richer tonal pallette.
This is an example of being able to recognize notes that will fit well into a given musical context. That's the end goal!
I'm trying to figure out a more generalized approach. I hear a series of notes playing in the major scale and I can recognize it. If I play the major scale and hit an incorrect note, I immediately know that note doesn't belong. Can I do the same for the minor scale? No. How do I get there?
Something Joe Satriani said in the "free lesson" video I posted recently really stuck with me. Paraphrasing, he said "practicing scales up and down in a non-musical way rots the brain". So I don't want to do that. So I can see the backing track being useful. He did it over his "student" droning a note at I recall. A pedal tone like you suggest could work for that too.
So this would be a way of learning and recognizing the modes.
So do I choose some of the more widely used modes, and practice them? Using the pedal tone, I get interval training...that seems important. (Another of Joe's suggestions come to mind - figure out which ones appeal to me...)
An approach I have in mind is to transcribe melodies and solos. Doesn't matter if its jazz, pop music, whatever...as long as the tempo isn't so crazy that it's a blur. I can think of a bunch of solo Andy Summers that would be great for this. Kind of Blue by Miles Davis would be cool too. That I know is based on modes. This gives me some musical context, something I hear without having to sing, and I need to find it on my guitar.
However, Chris Schlagel rightly pointed out that if I'm not familiar with the mode or scale being used, it's like trying to read without having learned the alphabet yet.
Maybe the issue is I don't know what I need to learn in this area...I don't know what I don't know :-). It's a little frustrating.
The bottom line is this: I have a clear plan well under way to learn the notes on the fretboard, I have a plan I'm working to better understand the rhythmic of soloing, but I don't have a well defined plan in this area.
# 3
Say each note as you play it and if you can, say it in key.
Big E or 6th string, find A. Now play A B C all on the 6th string, while looking at each location and saying each note in key.
Now move to the A string and do the same thing, follow the pattern on the D then G and B and E strings.
Now on the small E or 1st play A, B, C and work your way back up.
Do the same thing using C,D E then E, F, G. Maybe different days or practice sessions.
You will learn the fret board and the train your ear at the same time. You will also hear how playing the notes in the different places effect the tone or feel you can get.
Just throwing it out there.
Big E or 6th string, find A. Now play A B C all on the 6th string, while looking at each location and saying each note in key.
Now move to the A string and do the same thing, follow the pattern on the D then G and B and E strings.
Now on the small E or 1st play A, B, C and work your way back up.
Do the same thing using C,D E then E, F, G. Maybe different days or practice sessions.
You will learn the fret board and the train your ear at the same time. You will also hear how playing the notes in the different places effect the tone or feel you can get.
Just throwing it out there.
# 4
Great questions & replies! Ear training or aural training is absolutely crucial to your development as a musician. There are many different approaches because the process of acquiring differs from person to person.
But the same thing has to take place. The same end goal is to know what to expect when you play some notes or chords. You know what the sounds will be before you actually play them.
For some people, simply playing & massive repetition will be enough. For others, it helps to have a more systematic approach. To plan & consciously think, "This is a major scale", or "This is a ii-V-I progression", etc. It takes longer for some, shorter for others. But the principle remains: you have to internalize & automate the sounds of music.
This is how some people can hear a chord progression, series of notes, a lick & automatically know how to play it: they've already heard something similar, they've played it or something similar, so it's stored in some form in their subconscious ("memory banks") & hearing it again triggers that memory.
It can help to sing along, even in a poor quality singing voice, because it is one more way for your mind & body to remember, to internalize & automate any given group of notes or chords. Your fingers, ears, mind and also, your voice are all doing the same thing, integrated in the same process.
It is not absolutely necessary to sing in order to get better at aural identification. But it can help because it is another way you can get your mind & body on the same task: getting sounds automated in your mind & associating them with certain physical motions.
I know that sometimes it helps me when transcribing a hard solo. I'll listen to just a short segment of a few seconds. Or a short phrase of 5-6 notes. Then I repeat that lick over & again. I'll sometimes hum or sing it until I've got it memorized while I am looking for it on the fretboard.
Sure, it's the key to that and more: in general, to being a better musician.
It's not bad to practice scales systematically. But when you do you should place them in some musical context in your mind. Think of the scale degrees when you play scales. Learn to associate that scale degree (it's relative position from the root) number with it's sound & position in the scale on the fretboard.
Play a scale over a backing track with a solid chord progression that you've memorized. Start & end segments of the scale so they are chords tones of the progression as it happens. Listen for sounds of how this works.
I often play scales & chords a measure each right after each other. Or play a bass note, or pedal tone in order to firmly ground my thinking about what key or chord I am referring to as I'm playing scales or licks.
I do that in these improvisation lessons & this channel lesson when I talk about adding a bass note in between licks.
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=876
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=483
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=491
http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=17553&s_id=1501
Conveniently, the channel episode is about using the pentatonic box as a visual reference, but adding diatonic notes. :)
Hope this helps! Have fun!
But the same thing has to take place. The same end goal is to know what to expect when you play some notes or chords. You know what the sounds will be before you actually play them.
For some people, simply playing & massive repetition will be enough. For others, it helps to have a more systematic approach. To plan & consciously think, "This is a major scale", or "This is a ii-V-I progression", etc. It takes longer for some, shorter for others. But the principle remains: you have to internalize & automate the sounds of music.
This is how some people can hear a chord progression, series of notes, a lick & automatically know how to play it: they've already heard something similar, they've played it or something similar, so it's stored in some form in their subconscious ("memory banks") & hearing it again triggers that memory.
It can help to sing along, even in a poor quality singing voice, because it is one more way for your mind & body to remember, to internalize & automate any given group of notes or chords. Your fingers, ears, mind and also, your voice are all doing the same thing, integrated in the same process.
It is not absolutely necessary to sing in order to get better at aural identification. But it can help because it is another way you can get your mind & body on the same task: getting sounds automated in your mind & associating them with certain physical motions.
I know that sometimes it helps me when transcribing a hard solo. I'll listen to just a short segment of a few seconds. Or a short phrase of 5-6 notes. Then I repeat that lick over & again. I'll sometimes hum or sing it until I've got it memorized while I am looking for it on the fretboard.
Originally Posted by: maggiorAlso, is practicing scale patterns a component and/or form of ear training?[/quote]
It depends upon how you are doing it & if you are paying attention to the sounds, or just moving your fingers without listening.Originally Posted by: maggiorSince I've been practicing the major and pentatonic scales for many years, I can tell immediately if I've hit a bad note in it. Hand me a minor scale or one of the modes, and it's just a string of notes to me...
Ah ha! You're starting to internalize the pentatonic scales, but not yet the diatonic.
So, it would help to practice the diatonic scales in a way that identifies relative pitch. The pedal point exercises in GF2 Chapter 7 are great for this.
Another approach that I find helps students is to play simple melodies in various places all over the fretboard. What you are after is to get beyond merely playing a graphic pattern of frets & strings, to the point at which it is a pattern of musical sounds.
[QUOTE=maggior]
I'm trying to fit a plan together for myself with this and I'm not sure exactly where to begin...and where exactly I'm trying to go. I'm told that developing one's ear is key to well rounded and melodic improvisation.
Sure, it's the key to that and more: in general, to being a better musician.
It's not bad to practice scales systematically. But when you do you should place them in some musical context in your mind. Think of the scale degrees when you play scales. Learn to associate that scale degree (it's relative position from the root) number with it's sound & position in the scale on the fretboard.
Play a scale over a backing track with a solid chord progression that you've memorized. Start & end segments of the scale so they are chords tones of the progression as it happens. Listen for sounds of how this works.
I often play scales & chords a measure each right after each other. Or play a bass note, or pedal tone in order to firmly ground my thinking about what key or chord I am referring to as I'm playing scales or licks.
I do that in these improvisation lessons & this channel lesson when I talk about adding a bass note in between licks.
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=876
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=483
www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=491
http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=17553&s_id=1501
Conveniently, the channel episode is about using the pentatonic box as a visual reference, but adding diatonic notes. :)
Hope this helps! Have fun!
# 5
