Questions about starting a band

I've decided to try and form my own band, after having tried playing with others a few times, and I've got a few questions, I'm hoping someone can answer for me.

1: Can I start the band alone and write my adverts from a full band's point-of-view, rather than as a single individual trying to start a band? Or do I need to have at least half the needed people in order to actually start the band?

2: Do I need to have some songs ready before starting the band? I only really want to play original material when I get gigs in the future, while covers can be in the rehearsal-room.

3: What would you recommend I set as minimum requirements? I don't have the best gear myself, and I'm only a "lower intermediate" guitarist if I have to be honest. Should I still set high requirements or should I aim for some folks on my own level?

Any advice and recommendation are appreciated.

In direct response to your three questions:

1). Be very clear about who you are, what you're looking for, and what your assets are in your ad:

Yes: "XX year old guitar player with x years of experience seeking musicians to form a band. My influences are: xxxxxx.... I am still fairly new to guitar, and this is my first time putting together a band. I'm looking for like-minded musicians to get together with, jam & most importantly have fun! I would like to develop mostly original music, but some covers are ok too."

No: "Lords of Thunder" now seeking applications for the position of bass, drums, keyboards, rhythm guitar, and lead vocalist. Must have excellent chops and even better gear. Only the serious need apply, no newbies!! If you are extremely talented, dedicated, and are willing to commit to a world tour, then you could be what we're looking for!

Ok, over-the-top, but you get the idea. Keep it casual for now. If things go well, the music is good and you get along, then you'll probably come together naturally rather than trying to worry about the perfect match & commitment right up front.

2). Yes/No/Maybe so? There's no right/wrong answer here. If you have some stuff that you think is really good, then by all means, start with that. But don't be afraid to just get together, jam, and see what you come up with as a whole. Personally, I think the best bands are the ones where everyone does their thing, and it just fits. That's why the band "works". I don't like creative dictatorships, where someone is constantly saying "play this... no no, play it like THIS..." but that's just me. There are projects and "bands" that have been very successful with one person putting forward most, if not all, of the creative ideas, and the rest of the band just followed their lead. When I played in a band, I wrote songs, but the best drummers I ever had needed no input... they just played really well, and I liked it so I left well enough alone. If you have to offer a lot of input to someone's playing, it may be a sign that you're not really that compatible. I've experienced that a number of times too.

3) Well, you could just put together a band acoustically, but I know that's not you, so some practical advice:

Bare minimum: unless you are going completely electronically (which you can do these days, especially with things like the "Jam Hub), then every member of your band needs to be heard above the drummer. This means you'll need decent amps for bass & guitar, and a PA for the singer if you have one. As a guitar player, watch out for low-powered amps that seem loud in a non-rehearsal situation. You may find yourself cranking up a 20 watt amp to the point where it has too much distortion, and you can't get your sound to where you want it to be and still be heard.

Many drummers love to pound. This can be unfortunate in that it then requires everyone else to be louder. I'd say this is probably the #1 flaw/mistake that new bands make.... the drummers says "ya bro, I like to play HARD!!" and next thing you know everyone is cranked and the lead vocalist is screaming into the mike. Do not let your drummer set the over-all volume... that belongs to the lead singer. The lead vocalist should be able to be heard clearly without needing to strain. This will also allow your band to play with dynamics instead of simply a constant wall-of-noise volume. Imagine that Chris Issak song Wicked Game ... now imagine if the band played so loud that he had to yell into the mike to be heard... it would change the whole sound. We're not talking style here, just leaving enough "head room" for the vocalist so that singing at less than a scream is an option.

You'll need a place to rehearse too. This can be a curse and a blessing. When you first start, you'll just want to find a place & time where you can just mess around without disturbing anyone. Whatever you can get away with is just fine... maybe there's no PA and the singer just uses an amp.. its ok, you're just trying to get an idea of who does what and how it all sounds. Later, if you get more serious, you may want to look into renting a rehearsal space. Some places will rent you a dry (fingers crossed) warm, place that has power, on a month to month basis. Other places may rent by the hour, and provide a PA for you. Either way, its a good next step to see who is really serious about continuing further when everyone has to start chipping for rehearsal space costs.

The last words of wisdom I'd offer are this: first, don't take any of this too seriously. People start bands all the time, get all worked up, and next you know its over because everyone's egos just got way too big. Be flexible. Let people experiment.

Don't try to make money. As soon as you try to make money from gigs, you start compromising what it is that you're doing. It stops being fun, and becomes a job... unless of course, being in a serious cover band is your goal (but you already said its not). Let the music happen first. If you're good, and you've got something, you'll know, and opportunities will start to open up for you. In the meantime, just have fun with it. You'll likely be in a number of "bands" and play with quite a few different people before finding the right people, so keep it upbeat and enjoy the moment.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardIn direct response to your three questions:

1). Be very clear about who you are, what you're looking for, and what your assets are in your ad:

Yes: "XX year old guitar player with x years of experience seeking musicians to form a band. My influences are: xxxxxx.... I am still fairly new to guitar, and this is my first time putting together a band. I'm looking for like-minded musicians to get together with, jam & most importantly have fun! I would like to develop mostly original music, but some covers are ok too."

No: "Lords of Thunder" now seeking applications for the position of bass, drums, keyboards, rhythm guitar, and lead vocalist. Must have excellent chops and even better gear. Only the serious need apply, no newbies!! If you are extremely talented, dedicated, and are willing to commit to a world tour, then you could be what we're looking for!

Ok, over-the-top, but you get the idea. Keep it casual for now. If things go well, the music is good and you get along, then you'll probably come together naturally rather than trying to worry about the perfect match & commitment right up front.
[/QUOTE]
Does this mean I should specifically state that I'm looking for a guitarist, bassist, drummer, singer and pianist (most of my main influences have those instruments), or should I just say that I'm looking for some people to start a band to play music in the style of my favorite bands?

Originally Posted by: Slipin Lizard
2). Yes/No/Maybe so? There's no right/wrong answer here. If you have some stuff that you think is really good, then by all means, start with that. But don't be afraid to just get together, jam, and see what you come up with as a whole. Personally, I think the best bands are the ones where everyone does their thing, and it just fits. That's why the band "works". I don't like creative dictatorships, where someone is constantly saying "play this... no no, play it like THIS..." but that's just me. There are projects and "bands" that have been very successful with one person putting forward most, if not all, of the creative ideas, and the rest of the band just followed their lead. When I played in a band, I wrote songs, but the best drummers I ever had needed no input... they just played really well, and I liked it so I left well enough alone. If you have to offer a lot of input to someone's playing, it may be a sign that you're not really that compatible. I've experienced that a number of times too.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I wouldn't ever want to try telling the drummer how to play. He knows more about his instrument than I'd probably ever try to learn. I know that some great bands let one person do most of the creative work, while others are more cooperative when it comes to writing songs. And then some just tend to mix it up a bit. I'd prefer, in my band, if for example the Rhythm Guitarist comes with a cool riff he came up with, and the Lead Guitarist can come up with a great turnaround at the end, if the riff would otherwise feel too repetitive. That said, guitarists should stick with their guitars, unless they're learning another instrument too.

[QUOTE=Slipin Lizard]
3) Well, you could just put together a band acoustically, but I know that's not you, so some practical advice:

Bare minimum: unless you are going completely electronically (which you can do these days, especially with things like the "Jam Hub), then every member of your band needs to be heard above the drummer. This means you'll need decent amps for bass & guitar, and a PA for the singer if you have one. As a guitar player, watch out for low-powered amps that seem loud in a non-rehearsal situation. You may find yourself cranking up a 20 watt amp to the point where it has too much distortion, and you can't get your sound to where you want it to be and still be heard.

Many drummers love to pound. This can be unfortunate in that it then requires everyone else to be louder. I'd say this is probably the #1 flaw/mistake that new bands make.... the drummers says "ya bro, I like to play HARD!!" and next thing you know everyone is cranked and the lead vocalist is screaming into the mike. Do not let your drummer set the over-all volume... that belongs to the lead singer. The lead vocalist should be able to be heard clearly without needing to strain. This will also allow your band to play with dynamics instead of simply a constant wall-of-noise volume. Imagine that Chris Issak song Wicked Game ... now imagine if the band played so loud that he had to yell into the mike to be heard... it would change the whole sound. We're not talking style here, just leaving enough "head room" for the vocalist so that singing at less than a scream is an option.

You'll need a place to rehearse too. This can be a curse and a blessing. When you first start, you'll just want to find a place & time where you can just mess around without disturbing anyone. Whatever you can get away with is just fine... maybe there's no PA and the singer just uses an amp.. its ok, you're just trying to get an idea of who does what and how it all sounds. Later, if you get more serious, you may want to look into renting a rehearsal space. Some places will rent you a dry (fingers crossed) warm, place that has power, on a month to month basis. Other places may rent by the hour, and provide a PA for you. Either way, its a good next step to see who is really serious about continuing further when everyone has to start chipping for rehearsal space costs.

I wouldn't quite say that Acoustic isn't me, I don't mind playing the acoustic guitar, and there are a lot of great acoustic songs (Patience by GNR is probably my all-time favorite acoustic song). I just prefer playing the electric guitar because it's easier on my fingers.

Of course, I'll have to require a decent level of gear. A 10W beginner's amp just won't cut it, but what I meant was do I have to require they have a 150W Tube Amp or will it suffice with something similar to my own 40W Amp, which could easily play louder than the drummer in the band I tried jamming with, even without getting too much distortion. And he played loud!

[QUOTE=Slipin Lizard]
The last words of wisdom I'd offer are this: first, don't take any of this too seriously. People start bands all the time, get all worked up, and next you know its over because everyone's egos just got way too big. Be flexible. Let people experiment.

Don't try to make money. As soon as you try to make money from gigs, you start compromising what it is that you're doing. It stops being fun, and becomes a job... unless of course, being in a serious cover band is your goal (but you already said its not). Let the music happen first. If you're good, and you've got something, you'll know, and opportunities will start to open up for you. In the meantime, just have fun with it. You'll likely be in a number of "bands" and play with quite a few different people before finding the right people, so keep it upbeat and enjoy the moment.

Good luck!

Funny, those last two bits of advice are the same as the ones I got from three different professional guitarists I met at an expo this weekend. I know what kind of sound and style I want, but I'm trying to start a band here, so it shouldn't be all about me. That's just not my style, going all ego-tripping. If someone comes up with a cool song or even a great riff, I'll let them get the credit for it. If someone wants to try a different approach for a song, I'll go with it and see what happens. Even if it's only for one song,during a rehearsal, who knows what will happen? If Joe Perry can play with whatever tone he wants for any song, when Aerosmith play gigs, why shouldn't I let a band-member experiment a bit off-stage where nobody can hear it anyway? That's exactly what rehearsals are for, in my opinion: messing around with things that already work to see what happens.

I don't really expect to earn any kind of money from playing music anytime soon (it would be nice, but it's not something I require of myself). Simply getting a bunch of songs together, find some casual gigs to play, just to get the music out there and get some feedback and learn from it.

In the end, I guess I should just keep searching for the people needed. I'll gladly take on the role of democratic band-leader if nobody else wants the responsibility. I'm personally fairly tolerant when it comes to people's entrance level. To me, it doesn't matter if a guitarist who really wants to join only knows how to play Major and Minor Open Chords. If it means I can get the last guy needed to start the band, he can learn the rest soon enough. If someone wants to try singing on a song, I'd let them talk to the lead vocalist, or maybe let them both sing. Being in a band is supposed to be fun, and that's the part of it I miss the most: having fun and playing with other living people, other than my private teacher once a week.

Originally Posted by: KasperowDoes this mean I should specifically state... [/QUOTE] At this point, you have the vision, so if you know the instrumentation you are looking for, state it. Most ads are usually done that way.

Originally Posted by: Kasperow
I wouldn't quite say that Acoustic isn't me, I don't mind playing the acoustic guitar..

No, I'm talking about the entire band being acoustic... guitar, bass, drums, keys etc. I figured that probably wasn't what you were looking for... acoustic guitar is great, and there's all kinds of pluses to adding that to your skill set & repertoire.

[QUOTE=Kasperow]what I meant was do I have to require they have a 150W Tube Amp or will it suffice with something similar to my own 40W Amp...

That's a good question... I'd say at first, don't be too picky about the gear... whatever way they can make it work is fine. But keep in mind that at some point, especially if you intend to gig, each member is going to need to step up and have the gear they need. Its pretty easy to solve equipment issues... just plan ahead so that it doesn't become a last minute panic to find an amp, cabinet etc. Really though... I'd base it more on over-all attitude, followed by musicianship, than I would the gear they use.

It sounds like you've got a good handle on things. When people don't work out, or quit (and they will!) do everything you can to keep things on good terms. The more musicians you know, the better. You never know when you might run into each other again, perhaps with a mutually beneficial
opportunity at stake. Keeping separations cordial will leave the door open for the future. Have fun!

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardNo, I'm talking about the entire band being acoustic... guitar, bass, drums, keys etc. I figured that probably wasn't what you were looking for... acoustic guitar is great, and there's all kinds of pluses to adding that to your skill set & repertoire.
[/QUOTE]
Oh. I misunderstood it a bit then. The drums have to be acoustic, and I'd prefer if the other guitarist can also play an acoustic guitar. Piano should preferably be acoustic too, at least for major gigs. Other than that, I just want the typical instruments used in 70's-90's rock music (note, when I say the drums have to be acoustic, I mean old-fashioned barrels, not those new, fancy digital drums. That said, it will still have to be hooked up to some speakers for larger gigs in the future).

Originally Posted by: Slipin Lizard
That's a good question... I'd say at first, don't be too picky about the gear... whatever way they can make it work is fine. But keep in mind that at some point, especially if you intend to gig, each member is going to need to step up and have the gear they need. Its pretty easy to solve equipment issues... just plan ahead so that it doesn't become a last minute panic to find an amp, cabinet etc. Really though... I'd base it more on over-all attitude, followed by musicianship, than I would the gear they use.

I'm not quite sure what musicianship is, but yeah. Choosing nice and dedicated people who share my goals over either annoying or lazy people who don't show up for practice more than once a month or who consistently forget to practice certain songs would definitely be preferable. If they are nice and dedicated, it doesn't really matter that much what they play (even if they only have a cheap guitar and a 40W amp, it's better than an arrogant bastard with a 20000$ Marshall Tube Amp). It's a lot easier to rent or buy better gear than to buy a better personality.

[QUOTE=Slipin Lizard]
It sounds like you've got a good handle on things. When people don't work out, or quit (and they will!) do everything you can to keep things on good terms. The more musicians you know, the better. You never know when you might run into each other again, perhaps with a mutually beneficial
opportunity at stake. Keeping separations cordial will leave the door open for the future. Have fun!

I wouldn't say I've got a good handle on things. I just know what I want to sound a bit like and what people I'll need to find to get that kind of sound. When I left the other band, after only jamming with them a few times, I left on good terms with them, and we still keep in touch from time to time. If I'm lucky, someday both my band and theirs might do a double-tour together, or I might just get to warm up for one of their gigs (and vice versa). Either way, it's always better to be on good terms with other bands than to be their enemy.

Good questions and good answers too from Slipin. A few thoughts on what was posted >>

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardNo: "Lords of Thunder" now seeking applications for the position of bass, drums, keyboards, rhythm guitar, and lead vocalist. Must have excellent chops and even better gear...[/QUOTE]

This is soooo true. I've seen so many ads way back when that had this kinda deal.

In a way, these ads are like making a personal dating ad: You can say whatever you like but the best bet for after you've met your 'date' is too be honest first. Cuz after you meet, the jig is up anyway.

Originally Posted by: KasperowDoes this mean I should specifically state that I'm looking for a guitarist, bassist, drummer, singer and pianist (most of my main influences have those instruments), or should I just say that I'm looking for some people to start a band to play music in the style of my favorite bands?[/QUOTE]

State what and who you are; an individual that is looking to form a band around this general theme of music.

It will take time to build the group of players so the key is to be patient and collaborate with who you can and build from that.

[QUOTE=Slipin Lizard]Many drummers love to pound. This can be unfortunate in that it then requires everyone else to be louder. I'd say this is probably the #1 flaw/mistake that new bands make.... the drummers says "ya bro, I like to play HARD!!"

I both agree and disagree....

Like any instrumentalist, every drummer needs to have a range of skills and that require finesse and playing dynamic.

However, one of the best drummers I played with was a hitter. Loud, he was. But his playing had feeling to it. I mean it was rock/metal playing so being a hitter was desired.

I remember when he and a friend went to record some stuff during some open studio time (I went with and 'co-engineered'...that drummer I speak of was also my roommate and I'd run sound for his/my friends bands)...Anyway, he was trying to be meticulous and play without error and the first four takes were just lifeless...D-E-A-D.

I turned to the (real) engineer and said, "Would you just tell him to hit the 'effing' things already!"

The track came bounding to life after that. Something to think about.

[QUOTE=Kasperow]what I meant was do I have to require they have a 150W Tube Amp or will it suffice with something similar to my own 40W Amp...

The best bet is to be sure that each guitar player has a separate cabinet (2x12 / 4x12). Cabs are cheap.

I thought my 2x12 combo amp (back then) had great tone for a fairly funky set up. I mean, I pulled together an inexpensive rig that sounded great at mid-level volumes when practicing. When I needed to match the sonics of a band practice...DOA.

The amp just lost the sweetness it had when I practiced. Most combo amps have open backs and as the volume increases, the tone thins out. What was nice and chunky/farty in my bedroom sounded like a broken buzzsaw when I blasted it with the rest of the/a band.

I borrowed a 4x12 from a friend and voila....awesomeness. I went out and bought one soon thereafter (a cheap one...I was poor).

....a final thought.....

Be patient. Not revolutionary advice but still. Once I walked in to nearly a fully formed band with good musicians and a great singer. Stuff that's hard enough to come by.

Took forever to find a bass player.

One time, we had a guy come in to try out and argue how to play The Immigrant Song. The rest of the band had never played it together but we'd all jammed it alone at one time or another in our bedrooms so we said ok....and started that very well known riff...Me and the other guitar player jumped in to the riff as if we played together for a lifetime...

Bass player? Played the wrong key...Wrong key???? Everyone knows that song....After crashing that train wreck...he was like 'You guys really don't know this song. Do you?'...then huffed 'I mean it's in 'E' and is the easiest thing to play'....I looked at the other guitar player (Eric) and I was like 'Eric, F#?'...He was all 'Yep, F#'.

I looked at the bass candidate and said. 'What makes you think it's in E?'...he said, 'That's how my teacher taught me'.

I shouldn't have said it but I did say 'Ask for a refund.'

....I was young and cocky but he was totally a jerk through the few minutes we jammed....After I said the 'refund' thing, he turned of his amp and packed up without a word...but with a nice little sneer as he hefted his amp out the door.

Point is....you will not get winners every time....Food for thought.

Finally, after more than 2 months, am I starting to have some progress with starting a band. I've got a very interested Guitarist/Singer, and he knows a Bassist who might be interested as well. And my private guitar teacher knows some drum and bass teachers who might have interested students, so I'm starting to actually have something that can look like a band, or at least some candidates for it. Also, my guitar teacher has another student who could be interested as well, so if nothing else, I could end up with 3 guitarists. It's definitely worth trying, anyway. I'm not saying it'll work. I'm just saying it could be awesome if it does.