Scales in Soloing

Heres the A major scale, A B C# D E F# G# A
Does this mean every fret on the guitar of these is in the pattern?? beacause there are about 130 notes on the guitar, so theres like 10 of each!!
And you know when you have something like this, G major i think,

----12---14----15
----12---13----15
---(12)--14------ thats G major right? (12) = root.

Does that mean you can pick any G on the guitar, say open 3rd string and start it from there too? Would that be the G major scale in a different key? or octave lower? In which case when a song is in the key of G which version do you use??!?!?

Later Torby!!

For every major scale there is 6 possible 2 octave fingerings;
6th str. starting w/the 1st finger on the root, 2nd finger on the root and 4th finger. The same holds true for the 5th str, that also holds true for the 6 modes of the major scale, so that equals 42 possible 2 octave fingerings for any key, play in what ever position you want, its all the same notes. Thats one of the confusing things about the guitar.

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Would that be the G major scale in a different key?

Lol . . . sorry, that was just funny.


Yes, you can pick any G note on the guitar and start playing the corresponding major scale. The only difference will be the octave.

You've gotta understand that all the patterns for the scales and modes you've learned are connected. You could start playing a G major scale at the 3rd fret, 6th string and play through all the way to the 15th fret, 1st string. The patterns and notes that you're playing are incidental. What you're really doing is playing a series of intervals from the root that make up the scale.

I'd suggest checking out that Chordhouse site, or getting a good scale book that will show you all the patterns.

Sorry, what was funny? My ignorance in understanding?
Ive only been playing a year and have never had lessons but i can already play basically every guns n roses song, so dinny start!! now am working on the theory. So when i see two versions of the g major scale, one starting on an open 3rd string and one on the 12th fret am thinking, wow, these sound different!!
Is that really dumb??

Later Torby

No . . . if you're playing a G major scale, then that's the key you're in. It doesn't matter where on the guitar you play it. Oh, nevermind . . . sorry.

I think you're confusing octave with key. You're right, a major scale will sound different if you play it in a different octave, but you'll still be playing the same notes.

Ok i finally get it.. its the spaces between the notes that dictate which scale.. and the note it starts on is the name on the scale..!!!

But one last thing.. heres the G major,

---12------14--15
---12--13------15
---12------14---- one octave


--12------14---15----
--12--13-------15----
--12------14---------
--12------14-------16
--12------14---15----
---------------15---- the 2 octave

Its not got twice the number of notes because that would make it have 2 G's in the middle huh?

So playing from the 15th fret 6th string to the 12th fret 3rd string would also be G major!??

So basically these scale boxes/patterns are realy just convienently spaced out areas where all the notes are close together?

Could you make a wacky G major scale starting on the 3rd fret 6th string and jump to the first string for the A? or is that jumping octaves (proper name for that?) and not allowed. If its not allowed then thank god!!

learn some scales and modes man.read the threads on
theory.understanding will come as you read that stuff.
this is a really good site and i think a beginner
could learn to master the guitar with no other help
than this site if he reads all the threads and practices
the things that are shared here.

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Ok i finally get it.. its the spaces between the notes that dictate which scale.. and the note it starts on is the name on the scale..!!!

Exactly, that's what I meant by intervals. There is a certain pattern of intervals for a major scale, a minor scale, etc. All the patterns that you're making up on the fretboard come from these intervals.

When you play that huge G scale pattern across all 6 strings, you're actually playing the G scale three times, across three octaves. From the G note at the 15th fret, 6th string to the 17th fret, 4th string is once through. And so forth . . .

As to your last question . . . there's no right answer to that. You could play the G major scale using notes from all different octaves, but whether it would be allowed or not is another story.

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Sorry, what was funny? My ignorance in understanding?
Ive only been playing a year and have never had lessons but i can already play basically every guns n roses song, so dinny start!! now am working on the theory. So when i see two versions of the g major scale, one starting on an open 3rd string and one on the 12th fret am thinking, wow, these sound different!!
Is that really dumb??

Later Torby

Not to put you down or anything but it's kind of stupid learning by playing other peoples music...if you work on theory first you will be able to play very difficult stuff in the space of a year AND you will understand the songwriting behind the songs that you learn so you will be able to jam with them without playing the exact thing that they do. That will help if you can't find the tab for a certain song and really want to play it. Learning theory before learning to copy also greatly helps with songwriting once you start to try making it big becuase your brain will be more geared towards technical aspects and variety than towards sounding a certain way. People like you are the reason that you will find certain bands that sound the exact same as others or are greatly influenced by them. Dreadfully annoying.

So just a word of advice...sit down and practice for a while each day on theory and getting to know the fretboard. Work on just messing around for a bit with scales to see how to move them up and down the fretboard while staying in the right key. Play a little with barre and other mobile chords to get scales from them. If you do that you won't ever need lessons and thus save $12-30 per hour in learning. You'll never regret that.

Oh, and the reason I went off on all that was because you stumpled upon a pet peave of mine...I find it ungodly stupid the way people think that being able to play a song that someone else wrote shows that they have skill, even if it is all of GR's songs. Skill is all about bending the guitar to your will, making it cry and scream according to your desires. (for the non-poetically minded, that means improve and songwritting).

Yeah i never meant to be cheeky by saying "well excuse me" kinda thing. Its just i dont like to feel ridiculed by my inexperience, not that you were ridiculing me i guess.
About GnR, i really value players on what they can play. You go round to your pals house and hear them play the accoustic intro (or whole song for that matter) to "nothing else matters" by metallica and its really impressive. Jamming with my friends right now is all about taking turns at playing stuff we're learned and then playing songs together. Patience by guns n roses is awesome for that. I think you should learn songs first, not theory. The first riff i learned was simple apreggios on Em and G. But my friends new is was a song called civil war!! Thats wear the excitement starts, soon i could play nightrain and sweet child and estranged. But now i wana learn the scales and theory. I know patterns, pentatonic and stuff.
Right, heres something i really disagree with... you saying about copying other bands!!!
Take Aerosmith, theyve moved away from the 80's style that they were best at. So have guns n roses to a certain extent. I wana be in a band that sounds like that!! And i want a band to come out and play like that!

later torby

I think everyone started playing guitar to be able to play your favourite songs and not to be able to make your guitar cry, you don't even think of that when you start playing. After a while you get bored playing other people stuff and you start making your own, sometimes you steel a couple of licks that you learned in the past from yor favourite guitarist you mix them and you come up with a whole new complete solo or lick, that´s why it's also important to learn other people stuff. You wont sound exactly like other band or gutiarist because everyone has more than 2 influences.

i think a lot of times we get caught up in what
we like so much that we lose track of other peoples
needs. i suggested that you learn theory because
it will give you so much to 'play' with. learning
other peoples music is just as fun. if you want to
impress other people then you need to decide what it
is that will impress them. if you want to master the
instrument i think the thing to do is to be able to
play anything ya want. playing 'covers' is great if
thats wut yer into. but sooner or later ya wanna be
able to make the sound that comes to your head
instantaneously,without thinking. its like learning
a language. ya dont give a lot of thought to how to
say your words because you have spoken so much. so
play lots and lots. learn lots of theory. learn covers.
but play play play. :)

Other peoples needs?!?!? Dude i sit and play patience with my mates, i also like playing wild horses. I really dont particularly care about planning my rise to fame. True, theory is important, but on day one of playing guitar i was real slow and my technique was poor. now i'm fast and efficient.
This is what really pisses me off. People being self-righeous and patronising to us "beginners".

later

you think perhaps us 'non'beginners know less than
the beginners ? one day people will ask for your
advice and hope to learn wut they wanna learn and
not what you want them to learn. we dont all like
the same music nor do we all enjoy the same styles
of playing.if the only advice anyone ever got was
to play like you or one of your heroes there would be
a much less rich assortment to choose from. over time
most dedicated musicians evolve from different styles
and tastes. yeah i can shred and i can play ballads
and blues and jazz too. but i dont think its my place
to choose someone elses style. the best one can do
is to learn how to learn.

Dont even think about implying theres jealous between "beginners" and "non".
I believe your idea of a homogenised guitar world is a bit far fetched. Most bands are born out of a combination of other bands stuck together. eg Aerosmith = stones and yardbirds, Guns n Roses = aerosmith and stones. But they're totally different bands!! Copying a band and learning them perfectly is a good idea. Ive learned all the guns n roses tricks and styles, the way they struture songs for example. And hopefully if i get in a band the other players will be experts on other bands. And its not like i only like guns n roses, the stones, aerosmith, thin lizzy are also bands i learn.
Basically, im saying that i get annoyed when i hear people say "ah learning you favourite songs might be fun but you have to learn theory" and although its true.. so what!! I like having fun!! Through learning songs i learnt the pentatonic scale accidently, all the patterns were in songs, now ive given them a name!
I just get annoyed when people start assuming everyone plays guitar to be some big rock hero!! Im very much a bedroom guitarist and thats fine!

torby

Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Dont even think about implying theres jealous between "beginners" and "non".

You better believe there is!!!

When I first started playing and saw a friend of mine shredding and jamming all over the place I was jealous as hell. After I saw him play (he was playing stuff like Satriani and Vai) I was pretty discouraged and almost gave up the guitar all together.

I just looked at modes, heres C major (ionian)


E |-----------------------------------------10-12-13|
B |--------------------------------10-12-13---------|
G |------------------------9-10-12------------------|
D |----------------9-10-12--------------------------|
A |--------8-10-12----------------------------------|
E |8-10-12-------------------------------------=----|

below is the infamous G major!

E--12------14--15--
B--12--13------15--
G--12------14------

If scales can be moved up and down.. how does this fit into the above one?

It doesn't. G major is a different key.

what you have there is two different finger patterns for the major scale, one starting with the 1st finger on the 6th string, the other starting with the 2nd finger on the 6th string, both of these patterns are movable, the root of the scale will be the note you start with on the 6th string.

hey i've searched the web high and low for the aeolian 3 octave scale so i can learn to solo up and down the fretboard with out having to jump around so the pattern will be ascending in a diagonal line.......can someone please show me how to do it, i would REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate it!!! If u have a few extra minutes to waste on this pathetic question to u guyz maybe throw in some other modes as well. :P

[Edited by Guitarboy82 on 03-22-2002 at 02:32 PM]