Song Composition
Hey...it's me again. This time my question is on song composition. I can create riffs and licks out the butt. The problem arises when I try to write a full song. I can't seem to write a good song. I have some good intros, verses, chorus', I basically have everything. I just don't know how to put them together pleasingly. I am in a Christian Metal band and my influences as far as guitarist go are Hammett, Page, Santana, Frehley, and Hetfield. (big Metallica fan) Any help in this area would be appreciated. Tips and websites...whatever. Thankx.
# 1
http://www.berkleepress.com/berklee/bp_store.taf?_function=product_detail&bp_uid1=BerkleePress50449476
Yo! There are other books in Berklee press. Writing a great song is a god given gift. Sometimes gifts are to be worked out to be revealed. It's a long path, but it is paved with great joys.
Yo! There are other books in Berklee press. Writing a great song is a god given gift. Sometimes gifts are to be worked out to be revealed. It's a long path, but it is paved with great joys.
# 2
I have the same problem Freaky, I have all these tasty little licks and chords and maybe a cool chord progression but never get out of the "planning" phase. By the time I start recording it, I'm bored of it and start a new one.
But don't worry because Leonardo Di Vinci was the same way, they found huge books full of unfinished works of his.
But don't worry because Leonardo Di Vinci was the same way, they found huge books full of unfinished works of his.
# 3
a lot of times, snippets of songs from across a year or more can come together,.
Don't think in terms of start to finish, just be happy everytime you create something original, be it four measure, a verse, etc.
http://www.chrisbsmusic.com
Don't think in terms of start to finish, just be happy everytime you create something original, be it four measure, a verse, etc.
http://www.chrisbsmusic.com
http://www.guitarsearcher.com
# 4
Hi!
All that i can say is, that i had the same problems. How i solved it? well...
no matter what kind of music u make - it is always good to have a bit of basic knowledge in music theory - classical music theory that is. I´m a metal musician (most of the time). Classical arrangements are more ore less the roots of all modern music. You should have knowledge about chord-basics (triads, fourths and fifths) and how they interact - but dont push it too far - knowledge is good - but too much theoretic knowledge may hinder you in yer musical (self) developement. I know heaps of peeps who studiet music and when they graduated, they came out as "machienes" incapable of writing a good song of their own - so IMHO the best thing is to lear the basics - and then you should be able to understand a bit more how the arrangement of a song works.
-=[Azrael]=-
All that i can say is, that i had the same problems. How i solved it? well...
no matter what kind of music u make - it is always good to have a bit of basic knowledge in music theory - classical music theory that is. I´m a metal musician (most of the time). Classical arrangements are more ore less the roots of all modern music. You should have knowledge about chord-basics (triads, fourths and fifths) and how they interact - but dont push it too far - knowledge is good - but too much theoretic knowledge may hinder you in yer musical (self) developement. I know heaps of peeps who studiet music and when they graduated, they came out as "machienes" incapable of writing a good song of their own - so IMHO the best thing is to lear the basics - and then you should be able to understand a bit more how the arrangement of a song works.
-=[Azrael]=-
[FONT=Times New Roman]Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What you decide to do every day makes you a good person... or not.[/FONT][br][br]
# 5
First off, to throw a bunch of riffs together is one way to write a song, though not a very effecient way to do it. A basic song requires that you compose each riff in the same key and keep some sort of logical transition going from Verse to Chorus to Solo to whatever. The key to keping this logical is the number 4.
Second off, look to some of your favorite songs to get an idea of how they are structured, i guarantee they will follow the simple formul below almost perfectly. Look at almost any Metallica, Megadeth, Black Sabbath Song, any other metal song, or any pop music song ever concieved.
Anyhow enough about that, this is fairly easy to grasp.
A simple way to structure a song:
Intro > 1x
Verse > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Verse > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Breakdown/Solo/Lead/Horrible Vocal Part > 4x
Another Verse or Solo or Horrible Vocal Part > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Outro...which is usually a repetition of the Intro with some additions and variations.
Now, repetition is the key to each segment of the song.
Depending on the lyrical content it can vary. For a basic example however the repetition will be simple at best...
In anycase the formula works in multiples of 4, and relies on decent riffs with good transitions from one to the next.
Each element is described below very very simply.
INTRO:
The intro has to set the mood of the song so it is essentially a seperate part that is played once.
Though the intro can be massively different from the verse and chorus musically and in it's tempo as long as it fits the mood of the song and there is adiquate transition from it to the first verse of the song.
VERSE:
Every verse should repeat the riff being used at least 4 times, this is assuming that you are in 4/4 time and your verse Riff is at least 4 meaures long...
If you have a 2 measure long verse riff it might be a good idea to repeat it 8 times...
Whatever you do make sure the last time this riff is repeated there is some sort of variation on the ending to it so that it transitions to the chorus.
CHORUS:
Repeat the chorus line at least 4 times...
But on the 4th repeat change the ending to transition back to the verse...
The chorus should be repeated no more than the verse unless completely necessary. 1:1 ratio
In most cases the chorus can be repeated half as much as the verse...so if you repeat your verse riff 8 times then repeat the chorus 4 times. 2:1 ratio
BREAKDOWN:
This is the part where the song starts progressing in a different but logical direction from the Veres and teh Chorus...
Thorw in something either faster or slower to fill time
Repeat that Riff 4 times at least and 16 times at most. This part will get very repetative once past 4 repeats and that's when the idea of having it combined with some sort of lead or solo comes in.
Throw in some sort of appropriate lead or solo, based on the songs feel and mood.
ANOTHER Solo/Riff/Vocal Part/Whatever:
This part is completely optional.
This should be either another type of verse which means the Riff used for it gets repeated 4 times.
While a solo or more vocals can be thrown in.
OUTRO:
This can be abrupt or prolonged.
IF you choose the prolonged route it will probably mean repeating the intro and adding in a melodic solo.
IF you take the abrupt route it will probably mean just hitting a chord and then a sharp cutting off of all noise.
Either way you combine the repetition of each segment of a song, it all comes down to first making sure your riffs go together well, second is that each part transitions to the next farily easily, third that they are repeated in a logical and simple fashion that does not get too repetitous, and fourth that the intro sets the mood.
Follow these simple ideas and you should have no problems churning out decent tunes.
Happy Song Writing.
Second off, look to some of your favorite songs to get an idea of how they are structured, i guarantee they will follow the simple formul below almost perfectly. Look at almost any Metallica, Megadeth, Black Sabbath Song, any other metal song, or any pop music song ever concieved.
Anyhow enough about that, this is fairly easy to grasp.
A simple way to structure a song:
Intro > 1x
Verse > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Verse > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Breakdown/Solo/Lead/Horrible Vocal Part > 4x
Another Verse or Solo or Horrible Vocal Part > 4x
Chorus > 4x
Outro...which is usually a repetition of the Intro with some additions and variations.
Now, repetition is the key to each segment of the song.
Depending on the lyrical content it can vary. For a basic example however the repetition will be simple at best...
In anycase the formula works in multiples of 4, and relies on decent riffs with good transitions from one to the next.
Each element is described below very very simply.
INTRO:
The intro has to set the mood of the song so it is essentially a seperate part that is played once.
Though the intro can be massively different from the verse and chorus musically and in it's tempo as long as it fits the mood of the song and there is adiquate transition from it to the first verse of the song.
VERSE:
Every verse should repeat the riff being used at least 4 times, this is assuming that you are in 4/4 time and your verse Riff is at least 4 meaures long...
If you have a 2 measure long verse riff it might be a good idea to repeat it 8 times...
Whatever you do make sure the last time this riff is repeated there is some sort of variation on the ending to it so that it transitions to the chorus.
CHORUS:
Repeat the chorus line at least 4 times...
But on the 4th repeat change the ending to transition back to the verse...
The chorus should be repeated no more than the verse unless completely necessary. 1:1 ratio
In most cases the chorus can be repeated half as much as the verse...so if you repeat your verse riff 8 times then repeat the chorus 4 times. 2:1 ratio
BREAKDOWN:
This is the part where the song starts progressing in a different but logical direction from the Veres and teh Chorus...
Thorw in something either faster or slower to fill time
Repeat that Riff 4 times at least and 16 times at most. This part will get very repetative once past 4 repeats and that's when the idea of having it combined with some sort of lead or solo comes in.
Throw in some sort of appropriate lead or solo, based on the songs feel and mood.
ANOTHER Solo/Riff/Vocal Part/Whatever:
This part is completely optional.
This should be either another type of verse which means the Riff used for it gets repeated 4 times.
While a solo or more vocals can be thrown in.
OUTRO:
This can be abrupt or prolonged.
IF you choose the prolonged route it will probably mean repeating the intro and adding in a melodic solo.
IF you take the abrupt route it will probably mean just hitting a chord and then a sharp cutting off of all noise.
Either way you combine the repetition of each segment of a song, it all comes down to first making sure your riffs go together well, second is that each part transitions to the next farily easily, third that they are repeated in a logical and simple fashion that does not get too repetitous, and fourth that the intro sets the mood.
Follow these simple ideas and you should have no problems churning out decent tunes.
Happy Song Writing.
# 6
# 7
Hmm... good for basic songs, but a little to one-sided for me - i like the unconventional things. I love when peeps find their own way and own identity. We have too many clones in this (musical) world.
[FONT=Times New Roman]Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What you decide to do every day makes you a good person... or not.[/FONT][br][br]
# 8
# 9
Originally posted by chris mood
. . . sounds like paint by numbers to me.
Perhaps, but if you ever want your songs to be popular, you'll have to follow Seiko's format.
People like to hear the same thing repeated. They like to know what's coming next so they can sing along. A song with a bunch of unexpected changes and modulations is not going to be popular among anyone but musicians, because regular, "casual" listeners won't have the ear for it and won't understand what's going on.
I'm all for writing funky stuff with modulations and unexpected changes in time signature because I'm a musician/guitarist, but if you want to write songs like that, don't expect to hear them on the radio any time soon.
# 10
I think you're all right. Commercial success requires a predictable and understandable format, but creating music by filling in a "musical template" isn't always the most interesting approach.
Personally, I LOVE Al Di Meola in terms of song composition. I think he is nearly unparalleled.
Personally, I LOVE Al Di Meola in terms of song composition. I think he is nearly unparalleled.
# 11
I think commercial music is what ever the mass society at that particular time seems to embrace, I don't think there is a formula for it, nor should there be. I think having that kind of attitude will only stunt creativity.
Remember there was a time not too long ago when bands like Yes and Emerson, Lake, and Palmer etc achieved much commercial success, I don't believe they had a formula. They took lots of chances.
50 or 60 yrs ago the music of Charlie Parker and the Be-Bop movement was considered commercial music, as well as they music of Duke Ellington and Louie Armstrong.
Mozart and Beethoven where considered commercial musicians in their day.
Be brave, be creative, and move forward. Don't reproduce but compose........just my moto.
Remember there was a time not too long ago when bands like Yes and Emerson, Lake, and Palmer etc achieved much commercial success, I don't believe they had a formula. They took lots of chances.
50 or 60 yrs ago the music of Charlie Parker and the Be-Bop movement was considered commercial music, as well as they music of Duke Ellington and Louie Armstrong.
Mozart and Beethoven where considered commercial musicians in their day.
Be brave, be creative, and move forward. Don't reproduce but compose........just my moto.
# 12
# 13
I'm not a beginner musician. I haven't played guitar for maybe a year...but I have been a musician for about 8 years.
# 14
# 15
It's cool...I didn't take it as an insult...I was just stating a fact that might help you to help me.
# 16
First of all, I've got to say that Seiko had some great tips about song structure, but Azrael's views about music theory aren't quite accurate. I'm a theory buff and I write tons of my own stuff. And yes, it's truly my own. Seeing as you're a Christian band (more power to you), you're problem might not be with technicality, but with inspiration. Spend some time with God and it'll come. I'm not saying that it'll come right away, but give it time. One day you'll be messin' around and all of the sudden everything will click and fall into place. I've also got to say that you're already doing a great job by not settling for less. It's said that great art is never completed, just abandoned. It's GREAT that you're knit-picky about this. So many other bands and writers just crap a bunch of stuff out and call it music. The fact that you want to perfect it should give hope to the music world!
# 17
# 18
this is a problem that u can find in almost 99% of all musicians...the best way to make an entirely good song is to gett a good band,,,and at least 2 people in the band have some good musical comunication....team work is always better,faster,and more interesting.....it's also important to deal with the track construction as separate matter (it's not included in terms of playing guitar),it's a separate matter that has to be studied and practiced individually...
# 19
