I have no clue how to start writing...

I need suggestions on how I start out writing songs. I have music in my head that I made up, and maybe some lyrics but I have no idea how to put 2 and 2 together.

Well the way I usually do it is either have music and then you just listen to it and hum melodies and then start to form lyrics out of the melodies you hum to your song.

Or usually I have music, then I have lyrics I have also written and I basically do kinda the same thing, but I already have the lyrics, its just trying to fit the lyrics into the song. Also that means you may have to modify your music a bit or a lot depending. This is actually a good idea to me because I will usually have all the musical hooks and everything written with verses then when I try to fit lyrics in I just leave the hooks and basically write corresponding verses (musical ones that ake the lyrics I have) and then combine them both so I have good music sections then lyrical sections that are also good and when the lyrics are going the music generally backs off a bit. Sometimes it works that lyrics you have and music just go together perfectly.

Think about meaning when writing music for lyrics and put emphasis (with music) where you think it should go.

There aren't any real rules that I know of I basically just go for it and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. I don;t have a ton of experience so I am kinda where you are, those are just my ideas on how to do it.

First of all I have not written any songs with lyrics for at least 5 years, and also I only ever made a single album with a band, which was actually the "Song Writing and Recording" course students I was learning with. In that short 8 (or so) week course, I learnt a lot of things about writing music but even more about myself. Writing and playing music is not just about the technical side of things or even just the outward expression of ideas through music and lyrics. It is also about the self-exploration, so anything anyone ever tells you about "how to do" something that is all about expressing yourself outwardly should never be treated as gospel. Playing from the heart means playing from YOUR heart, not mine. I didn't know whether to reply to this thread because I really don't have a huge amount of experience in song writing.. but as only got one reply so far, I thought I would give my opinion too..

It really depends on the purpose of the song to me. If I am writing something that is more to do with the way the music sounds, then I will always start with the chords then build the music up around the chords. Then I usually fiddle around with different timings using that same chord progression and find something that not just sounds good but also invokes some sort of image in my mind. It is at this point that I have a general idea of what the lyrics are going to be about. Then, with the chord progression in it's "perfect" timing in your MP3 player, you can put down the guitar and start humming melodies while meditating / concentrating on the image, feeling or idea that you had earlier. At some point your mind will just fill in the blanks, and writing the actual lyrics becomes much less of a chore because you know the timing and the melody you are trying to achieve. The lyrics will bend to fit themselves into your existing beat.
If it's all about the lyrics, then write out your "poem" and apply it to a melody and a timing. Once you are singing the song with ease, the next step is to create the music side of things. However, instead of immediately picking up the guitar and playing.. you should find out the timing and tempo and all that so that strumming the guitar does not overtly affect your original idea. I find that as soon as I am strumming the guitar, I lose sight of my original timing, melody and tempo. Best to get out a metronome whether analogue or digital, or better yet use some form of drum machine to create the exact feel you want. Only then should you pick up your guitar and start working out the chord progression.

And then there is the third option.. just make it all up as you go.. not terribly successful in my opinion.. but then some people can do that, I can't (except for very rare occasions).. I am very analytical.. Once I find something that invokes "something" internally that I want to express outwardly.. I'm set..

Check out my suggestion at "R U Serious about Songwriting?"

sing your song or its parts and tape it if you like the tune youve sang it build the guitar around it if you dont try again you can do the song in as many differents styles as you like to find the one you like

Doing it this way i find that i vocalize the guitar solos and riffs ass they come to me then sit and play around with the recordings...some work some are erased :D

Though I do not consider myself a musican, I do play guitar. I do consider myself as an experienced songwriter. Because I am not a musician, I approach song writing differently from the rest of you. You all have excellent suggestions. I may have a tune or riff that I may want to put in a song, but I record it and keep it until I have the right song. You really need to record it, because in time, you will forget it or at least forget part of it.

I always start my songs with the lyrics and 9 out of 10 times I start with the title. Remember songwriting isn't something set in stone. There are rules, but these rules are broken everyday and become successful songs.

Anyway, I think about the topic. What do I want to accomplish with this song? Then I come up with a title. A great title is very important! It is the first "hook" of any song. That title should be repeated throughout the song. Usually in first or last line of the chorus. The chorus should be repeated at least 3 times during the song. And you should get to the chorus as soon as possible, for this the chorus usually contains the "hook" and sets the tone for the rest of the song. If it is a long song (should be around 3 mins.) or it is becoming a little repetitive, you may want to add a bridge.

By the way, I also think of great titles and lines through my day. They may come to mind from a conversation I overheard, or from another song, or something I seen on the street. This is inspiration! We you get these spells of inspiration, you need to record them as well. I keep a log on my computer of lines and titles I thought up. Then when I get stuck, I refer to them.

I like all my lyrics to rhyme. This too is a rule, but not necessarily fact. The best way to develope rhyming is to practice. Jot down a few lines and each day and put them in ryhme. Not necessarily the song you are wanting to write, but anything. There are many different forms of rhyming. You're rhyme could be 1st and 2nd line, 3rd and 4th, and so on. I do a lot or different forms, but I like the 1st & 2nd, 4th & 5th, and 3rd & 6th to rhyme. to me it's easy to sing and flows well.

There are different kinds of rhymes. There are exact and near ryhmes. Be careful of near ryhmes. They are very acceptable in country and rap, but not so in other music.

Anyway, I get the title and lyrics, then I sing the words. By singing I come up with the melody. I work up the cords and strum pattern from the melody and then add my lick and riffs.

Anyway, that's the short of it. That's how I do it. I hope I have been some help. Sorry, I took up so much of your time.

Good luck and keep trying. You can't accomplish anything unless you try.

I'm just learning fow to write songs, too. The folks over at the RiffWorks forums have been really helpful with this:
http://www.sonomawireworks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4049

It's pretty easy with RiffWorks, though. It's my favorite recording program!

Well my theory is not staying up all night writing down lyrics. Good lyrics will always come natural in time - Some people are more natural than others normaly anyway, so just keep trying.

Do you stay up all night playing your guitar? It's just a matter of what you like to do. If you like something well enough you will work at it and with a little talent and a lot of hard work you will become good at it or even great. If you don't like it, you may get by, but you will never be good. And like playing the guitar the more you learn the more enjoyment you will get from it.

Anything that's worth while is worth doing a little homework. Anything new has a learning process to go through. Nobody is good at something without a little training, self-discipline, and a lot of dedication.

So, do you want to write songs that people sing in the shower, songs that people can't get out of their head, songs that will be aired long after you and I are gone, songs that make people stop and feel what you felt when you wrote it, songs that make people laugh and cry, songs that are used in movies and commericals, and so on and so on? Or do you just want to write a song that you can post on at website and have someone say, "Hey man, that's pretty good!"?

I wrote some good songs over the years (and some bad ones) and you are right to a certain degree. It seems the good songs (lyrics) took only about 20 mins or so to write. I have some that I have never finished. It all comes from inspiration and inspiration comes from everywhere and nowhere. If you are inspired, but cannot put a rhyme together or put your feelings into words, then what good is inspiration? Inspiration doesn't write the song for you.

I have never stayed up all night to write a song, but I have woke during the night with a title, topic, line, or tune in my head. That is why I keep a notepad next to my bed.

So, it up to you. Do you really want to write songs?

thats not what i was saying. im saying dont beat your self up cause you cant write a song in 2 mins..., it will come in time. and i do stay up and play guitar quite alot

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were saying that lyrics are not that important.

I was pretty sure, like most interested in playing, have stayed up playing the guitar. By point was, if it's something you enjoy doing, you will loose track of time.

I agree with you. If you are stuck on writing a song, you should take a break from it for awhile, but just a break. Do come back to it.

Sorry again.
Catchya Later!

i'm new to songwriting, but have been writing short fiction for years ... one of the things you can do to write ..."is to start writing" ... just take paper and pen -- paper and pen, not pc and keyboard -- and just start writing whatever is in your head ... keep writing until an idea starts to form ... or your current idea starts to gel ... make it rhyme, or fly, or whatever! just get to writing --- that's what matters.

i like blues and there are plenty of good books on blues out there ... blues are good because they can be simpler to put together ... in my opinion, anyway.

or ... try what i did recently ... i began strumming locomotive breath (tull) on my acoustic until i had it down (somewhat).. then switched up the rhythm (and tweeked the chords a little bit) to fit the lyrics (mine) i was humming and vice-versa ... it became a different song ... still needs lot's of work and tweeking, but it's a start ... i also like to take songs that i hear, that inspire my feelings about music ... and change the lyrics to my own ... then work on tweeking the chords and rhythm ...

i'm not very good at strumming and yammering out rhymes ... so i just pound it out, in different ways, until something happens ..

ya know what they say >>> writing is re-writing ... and re-writing ...etc.

[QUOTE=Jake48]i'm new to songwriting, but have been writing short fiction for years ... one of the things you can do to write ..."is to start writing" ... just take paper and pen -- paper and pen, not pc and keyboard -- and just start writing whatever is in your head ... keep writing until an idea starts to form ... or your current idea starts to gel ... make it rhyme, or fly, or whatever! just get to writing --- that's what matters.QUOTE]

This is good, but I use my computer a lot. I have a lot of sticky notes all over my desk at work, but I then put them on the computer at home later.

I keep a running log of rhymes and lines that I think up on the spur of the moment. I also record guitar licks I come up with. I collect common things people say or something I overheard that I think I might use. Then when I get inspired, I use my log to build on my lyrics or if I'm stuck for a line, I go to log.

I like using the computer because it's so easy to switch things around or change completely while keep the orginal thought.

I would be careful using other songs to create your own. You maybe violating some copyright laws. It probably won't be a problem, unless your song makes it big time. Then everyone and his brother will be after a piece of the action.

I had a problem years ago when my song resembled the song "Snow Bird". I wasn't fined or anything, but it cost a lot of moola for attorneys and time away from work. I didn't even use the song, it just had similiaries.

Just some friendly advice.

mmmmm.. Snow Bird - Anne Murray (1969).. nice song.. kind of reminds me of my very early years.. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2VYP0FCAUE

Hrmm.. it's very standard country melody.. how could someone even think of claiming for "similarities"..??