Thin Ice ?????

Please don't be offended.

When the Bible was put together, the life around the Holy lands - Cattle Sheep, dogs, cats, Man, was created.

When Darwin travelled the World, he came across life that the people of the Holy lands never knew existed - crocodiles, reptiles whales etc.

Could it be that some Life evolved and some Life was Created ?

I guess that makes about as much sense as any other theory.

*hearing the Pink Floyd song of same title in head*

I think I've joined this debate here at least once before, and this link was either shared or I was prompted to investigate on my own, I don't remember. Anywhoo...this little paragraph from it's Q&A kinda starts off my position:

Q I thought evolution was just a theory. Why do you call it a fact?
A Biological evolution is a change in the genetic characteristics of a population over time. That this happens is a fact. Biological evolution also refers to the common descent of living organisms from shared ancestors. The evidence for historical evolution -- genetic, fossil, anatomical, etc. -- is so overwhelming that it is also considered a fact. The theory of evolution describes the mechanisms that cause evolution. So evolution is both a fact and a theory.

In addition I think ego plays a huge role in people not accepting some resulting conclusions of evolution, namely, the "you don't think we came from monkeys do you??!!" statement.
Regardless, I still think there's always room for an open-mind (going both ways). Evolution is just trying to answer "how", while Creationism is throwing in "why" along with it. Ironically they're prolly both right to some degree...evolution was created.

I agree with the original thought. I think it's a combination of both theories. I base that on the thought that the Bible indicates that God created the Earth in 7 days, right? Well, time is mans invention to measure the passage of life. God would have no need for time. (One of the pluses of being an Eternal Being). There is a passage in the Bible somewhere (forgive me for not quoting it - I can't remember where it is) that says that basically that a day to God is a millenium to man.

So, keeping that thought in mind, then the fact that God created the Earth in 7 days makes perfect sense.

Bear in mind too that the early books of the Bible were written from oral history by Moses. It was NOT an eye-witness account. I sometimes think that early history is like a game of telephone. By the time the account is memorialized, the details can change and be a little fuzzy.

I think I have said this here on the boards before, but I like to think that God sort of set this up as a terrarium and just sort of kicked into motion. Not saying that he doesn't handle all the day to day maintenance. I do believe that. I just think that it is not out of the realm of possibilities that God used evolution as a way of developing mankind. We grow, change and adapt.

He never changes.

I realize that I cannot prove any of this, but this is how I have come to feel about it. 'Cuz you simply cannot dismiss the existence of fossils. They are here. We've all seen them. So to just shut your eyes and pretend that they don't exist is really just whistling past the graveyard.

Just my two cents worth.

I think I agree to some extent with what hunter is saying, the only difference being that I don't believe in God in the Biblical sense.

Here's what I think happened:

-Some mysterious force caused the big bang. This force was what I like to call God.
-Once the big bang happened, everything took place pretty much as science says it did, and God was never seen again.

I'm religious, so I don't buy into the whole big bang theory.....

There are new species of animals being discovered still to this day. I think that the reptiles that Darwin discovered just simply had not been discovered yet. The location of the Holy Land had a lot to do with that....


I do believe life evolves though, but new life comes from life that was created. For a cheesy example, the dog.....different parts of the world had different types of dogs adapted to live in the climates. The different dogs were bred and different breeds of dogs came to be.

I'm not very religious though I do believe in God somewhat. I lean more towards science, because of the studying and facts to back it up, but than I wonder, There's only so much you can prove scientificaly. I start thinking about how life came about, why it even exists, and I get really confused.

I'm a realist.
Life evolved from microbes and everything since the creation of life is pure chance. Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

Originally Posted by: schmangeI'm a realist.
Life evolved from microbes and everything since the creation of life is pure chance. Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

Realism, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder....

Does that mean that a man of science can't be religious or that a person with religious beliefs eschews science?

Originally Posted by: schmange Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

I highly agree

Originally Posted by: schmangeI'm a realist.
Life evolved from microbes and everything since the creation of life is pure chance. Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

Aman Brother

Originally Posted by: schmangeI'm a realist.
Life evolved from microbes and everything since the creation of life is pure chance. Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

it aint pure chance if u subscribe to the thought of relativity where time is a dimension which we move apon. its set yet we just travel along it.

on the other hand quantum physics says everythin is random. like we could just fall into the floor one day (quantum tunneling) although this is so unlickely it would have happened like 0.00001 times since the beginin of the universe.


as to big bang i believe in it. theres to much evidence for it. when it started is under some debate but it did happen. what i dont know is if there will be a big crunch in the future. the idea being the universe will stop expanding ( it is proved the univers is definitely expandin) and then colapse in on itself into an amazingly dense ball, then here will be another big bang, and it all starts again.

the other train of thought is the univers will expand for ever untill everythin is ludicrously far from anythin else. i dont like this image as it makes me think of the universe as stagnant and dead.

but then again this looks lickely as for some reason the universe seems to be expandin at an increased rate. they call the reason dark energy. dark cos we cant find it, and energy cos its making the universe move faster.

Originally Posted by: schmangeI'm a realist.
Life evolved from microbes and everything since the creation of life is pure chance. Religion and beliefs are nothing but man's creation to try and assign beliefs to things that humans can't understand.

I don't beleive that we all "evolved" from microbes.. if that were the case there would be at least one species on the planet evolving from one species to another. I do beleive that individual species micro-evolve to adapt to climate etc...

I beleive in God... if you logically look at the world and how it works... its definately a world by design.

And the joy and fulfillment I get from my religion is incredible... and if I go through my life.. filled with joy and fulfilled and then I turn out to be wrong (which I don't think I am) who does it hurt?... But what if I'm right?

Originally Posted by: Tonja_ReneeI don't beleive that we all "evolved" from microbes.. if that were the case there would be at least one species on the planet evolving from one species to another.

There are countless such species. Evolution is an unbounded process, not a 'point A to point B' one.

I do beleive that individual species micro-evolve to adapt to climate etc...

The theory of evolution makes no distinction between 'micro' and 'macro' changes. The distinction is nothing more than subjective bs created by people who don't want to fully accept the theory of evolution.

And the joy and fulfillment I get from my religion is incredible... and if I go through my life.. filled with joy and fulfilled and then I turn out to be wrong (which I don't think I am) who does it hurt?... But what if I'm right?

I can support that, but remember that Pascal's wager is not logically valid for 'witnessing'.

Originally Posted by: Tonja_Renee

I beleive in God... if you logically look at the world and how it works... its definately a world by design.

And the joy and fulfillment I get from my religion is incredible... and if I go through my life.. filled with joy and fulfilled and then I turn out to be wrong (which I don't think I am) who does it hurt?... But what if I'm right?

A world by design? Or a world forged by thousands of years of trial and error on behalf of human civilizations?

I'm not here to argue religious points of view. I grew up in a strong Christian household... However, my beliefs have changed dramatically once I started taking higher level science and math classes. I've come to the conclusion that not everything in the Bible should be taken in literally. I look at Jesus as a role model more than some spiritual entity... I look at God as the beacon of hope that there is a better place beyond the Earth that we know... BUT, I don't believe that he created Earth... Science can explain why an apple falls from a tree, why the Earth revolves around the Sun, why hot water boils, why fish have gills, and why humans are so intelligent..... These are things that science can tell us... You don't deny the fact that science can measure how fast your car is going or how cold or hot the weather is outside... Why do you reject the fact that science can tell you why and how you even exist.... That's my point of view anyway...

But like Tonja... I think it's good to have hope and faith in something that you're not quite sure if it's there or not. It's like walking into a completely dark room and you reach for the light switch... you can't feel it and you can't see it... but you KNOW it's there and if you feel around long enough you're sure to find it. That hope gives a lot of people the one reason they need to turn their lives from being a crack addict into being a good christian person.... It happens all the time... And that's the reason I will never argue against a strict Christian religious perspective... Scientology?? Yeah, well that's another story...

I know that my views on this subject will probably make people laugh. I believe in the theory of evolution, but I think we had help. I think that at some point in history this planet was visited by other beings and they added DNA to our gene pool. Hence the missing link. Of course they can't find any sign of evolution between walking on all fours(ape like) and walking upright. That change happened almost instantly because of the foriegn DNA that was introduced. And I also believe in a higher power (no,Not aliens) Of course an all powerful being would'nt be restricted to just the beings on this planet, He (or she) would have dominion over all. All the suns and all of the planets and all of the beings on those planets, not just in our universe but everywhere. (to deny the idea of life on other planets is just basic human arragance)
So with that being said I do believe that god had a hand in creating us but he did it through the actions of others.

Originally Posted by: BluesHound9
So with that being said I do believe that god had a hand in creating us but he did it through the actions of others.

Very interesting theory!!

I had a dream once where I founded a theory of how the Earth and Universe as we know it... is nothing more than a single chemical structure of something much larger... Like how our planets are neutrons and electrons and the son is a nucleus... We're all just one tiny piece of a much larger chemical structure... Ironically we're just part of the same structure that everyone comes to learn about in Chemistry..... I woke up and laughed nervously... then I started playing guitar and I didn't really care after that point.

In the end, we'll never know the truth until after we're all dead... and I'm not particularly in a hurry to find out.

Originally Posted by: aschleman
I had a dream once where I founded a theory of how the Earth and Universe as we know it... is nothing more than a single chemical structure of something much larger... Like how our planets are neutrons and electrons and the son is a nucleus... We're all just one tiny piece of a much larger chemical structure... Ironically we're just part of the same structure that everyone comes to learn about in Chemistry..... I woke up and laughed nervously... then I started playing guitar and I didn't really care after that point.

That's really not far from reality at all, if you look at even just the visible universe from the perspective of scale. Truly the sizes and distances are unimaginable. So maybe we are just little protozoans of this planet, which is actually invisible on the galactic scale.

Aschleman's theory is what I call the "Horton" theory. Horton was the elephant in a Dr. Seuss book. Horton found a speck of dust and could hear something on the speck that was calling out. No one else could hear it. Just Horton. (Because he had big ears I guess, I don't know). Anyway, it turns out that on this speck of dust was a complete civilization similar to Hortons called the Who I believe. The Who's were trying to call out to the people of Hortons world so that they wouldn't be destroyed. (proving that all living things have a desire to live). It turns out that all of the people of Who yelled at the same time, were heard by Hortons world, and saved.

Now to the theory. Just like in the story of Horton, or "Hortons theory", It appears that our universe is only a speck of something that is much larger.
We keep looking for an end, and keep finding similar universes, but no end.

So I am wondering if this larger being, that all of these universes are in, is actually God?

Originally Posted by: 40ftsmurfAschleman's theory is what I call the "Horton" theory. Horton was the elephant in a Dr. Seuss book. Horton found a speck of dust and could hear something on the speck that was calling out. No one else could hear it. Just Horton. (Because he had big ears I guess, I don't know). Anyway, it turns out that on this speck of dust was a complete civilization similar to Hortons called the Who I believe. The Who's were trying to call out to the people of Hortons world so that they wouldn't be destroyed. (proving that all living things have a desire to live). It turns out that all of the people of Who yelled at the same time, were heard by Hortons world, and saved.

Now to the theory. Just like in the story of Horton, or "Hortons theory", It appears that our universe is only a speck of something that is much larger.
We keep looking for an end, and keep finding similar universes, but no end.

So I am wondering if this larger being, that all of these universes are in, is actually God?

Umm...so God is a giant elephant named Horton? Okay, I'm confused.... :D