Half dim or dim scale


Zeppelin
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Zeppelin
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05/14/2001 6:58 pm
Hey can someone please explain me what is the difference between those two scales?? i know that both the chords built from 2 1.5 intervals, so what's the difference??

"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."

ren hoek
# 1
LuigiCabrini
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LuigiCabrini
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Joined: 06/23/00
Posts: 207
05/14/2001 8:52 pm
First of all, get used to calling them minor third intervals, or m3; more people will know what you're talking about.
Anyway, the half diminished scale (though it isn't usually called that) would be the scale associated with the half diminished chord, which is a minor7b5 chord. This is the locrian scale. It is spelt R b3 b5 b7. While it has the two minor third intervals, it also has another major third interval on top of those, making it not fully diminished. The locrian scale is spelled R b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7.
There are two diminished scales, and while you could think of them as being built on the diminished triad, with those two minor thirds, i think that it's more useful to think of them as coming from the fully diminished 7 chord, spelled R b3 b5 bb7. They are the half-whole and the whole-half scales. Their names explain how they are built, the half whole scale consists of repeating the pattern half step whole step half step, etc. In C it would be C, Db, Eb, Fb, etc. The whole half step is similar, but with a whole step interval first. In C: C, D, Eb, F, etc. They are also called octatonic scales, because there are 8 notes to the octave instead of 7 as there are in regular diatonic scales.
As for use, locrian is used over m7b5 chords (often in the context of a minor ii V I.) The octatonic scales are used over diminished chords, and the half whole is used over many altered dominant chords. Ever see the hendrix chord (E7#9) and not know how to solo over it? Try using the E half whole diminished scale; it will fit and sound interesting.
# 2
Zeppelin
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Zeppelin
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05/15/2001 3:53 pm
thanks Luigi! that was very good explanation...
but i got one more question:
i've learned a scale , few weeks ago which was build only
from intervals of one and half tones
is this m3 scalse too?


[Edited by Zeppelin on 05-15-2001 at 11:56 AM]
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."

ren hoek
# 3
LuigiCabrini
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Joined: 06/23/00
Posts: 207
LuigiCabrini
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Joined: 06/23/00
Posts: 207
05/15/2001 9:29 pm
Well that scale would really be an arpeggio. A diminished seventh chord is made up of only minor thirds (one and a half tones, as you said.) In C, it would be C, Eb, Gb, A. Is that the sclae you're talking about? If it is, then it's a dim7 arpeggio.
# 4
Zeppelin
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Zeppelin
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05/16/2001 9:15 pm
yeah i think this is it
it's a bit confusing me that you told me it's an arppegio and not a scale, because i was sure it's a scale but guess i was wrong :)
thank you for the help
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."

ren hoek
# 5

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