Recording setup

Guitar Tricks Forum > Recording > Recording setup

Registered User

Joined: 07/15/02

Posts: 111

hey there, I've lately been working on a home recording setup for jotting down my ideas, but as well with a view to being able to record a good quality demo of my band.
I've chosen the Yamaha AW16G as my main console, it has 8 inputs which can be recorded simultaneously, and have only read good things about it, I plan on getting some alesis monitors that my friend Andy (a studio engineer) recommended, most of my mics will be SHURE brand, but I plan on getting a RODE NTK if possible, to record vocals and acoustic instruments. Can anyone suggest any extras that I might need?

thanks
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

#1

hey there, I've lately been working on a home recording setup for jotting down my ideas, but as well with a view to being able to record a good quality demo of my band.
I've chosen the Yamaha AW16G as my main console, it has 8 inputs which can be recorded simultaneously, and have only read good things about it, I plan on getting some alesis monitors that my friend Andy (a studio engineer) recommended, most of my mics will be SHURE brand, but I plan on getting a RODE NTK if possible, to record vocals and acoustic instruments. Can anyone suggest any extras that I might need?

thanks
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 07/06/02

Posts: 5021

If you are going the way of the DAW (which you appear to be) Id suggest you have a really long hard look at the Korg D1600 mK II rather than the Yamaha.

The Korg comes with and supports a larger HDD and has more versatile routing options. It is more expensive but can do everything this beast can do and more. The mkII also has a USB port for exporting wav files to a PC fir further editing, not essential but a nicer (IMHO) interface.

I am biast as I used to own a D1600 and loved it to bits. The D1200 is another option however if you want to record live drums the D1600 is for you !

Whichever way you decide to go, the next best thing (in terms of bang for your buck) is a mic preamp. The Behringers are OK, not as nice sounding as the more expensive ones but can give a dramatic improvement in sound for very little cash ! Id also think about a nice condenser mic like a Shure KSM series as well as the good old Shure SM57s and SM58s. Also drum mics. Uhhh ooohhhho GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) attack looming !
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

#2

If you are going the way of the DAW (which you appear to be) Id suggest you have a really long hard look at the Korg D1600 mK II rather than the Yamaha.

The Korg comes with and supports a larger HDD and has more versatile routing options. It is more expensive but can do everything this beast can do and more. The mkII also has a USB port for exporting wav files to a PC fir further editing, not essential but a nicer (IMHO) interface.

I am biast as I used to own a D1600 and loved it to bits. The D1200 is another option however if you want to record live drums the D1600 is for you !

Whichever way you decide to go, the next best thing (in terms of bang for your buck) is a mic preamp. The Behringers are OK, not as nice sounding as the more expensive ones but can give a dramatic improvement in sound for very little cash ! Id also think about a nice condenser mic like a Shure KSM series as well as the good old Shure SM57s and SM58s. Also drum mics. Uhhh ooohhhho GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) attack looming !
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 07/06/02

Posts: 5021

This is the setup I use:
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7322

[Edited by Dr_simon on 09-12-2003 at 05:08 PM]
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

#3

This is the setup I use:
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7322

[Edited by Dr_simon on 09-12-2003 at 05:08 PM]
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

Registered User

Joined: 07/15/02

Posts: 111

yeah I had a look at your post, it was partially responsible for rekindling my interest in setting up a nice home studio, so thanks!
As for the korg, I've had people tell me not to go that way, this studio engineer friend of mine said that the preamps on the yamaha are vastly superior, plus the yamaha has the sample pads, and the 180 second loop sampler.
At the moment I dont have loads to spend, I'll prolly be able to get the workstation and maybe a couple of mics, then I would be borrowing kit until I gradually build up enough of my own.
Thanks for the input, if I see a korg D1600 for cheaper than a yamaha, I may well take the plunge!
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

#4

yeah I had a look at your post, it was partially responsible for rekindling my interest in setting up a nice home studio, so thanks!
As for the korg, I've had people tell me not to go that way, this studio engineer friend of mine said that the preamps on the yamaha are vastly superior, plus the yamaha has the sample pads, and the 180 second loop sampler.
At the moment I dont have loads to spend, I'll prolly be able to get the workstation and maybe a couple of mics, then I would be borrowing kit until I gradually build up enough of my own.
Thanks for the input, if I see a korg D1600 for cheaper than a yamaha, I may well take the plunge!
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 07/06/02

Posts: 5021

Yes, the pres on the Korg are not the best (not to say they are rubbish). I use external pres for everything and shoot into the D1200 or the PC using S/PDIF. This way I totally bypass the pres on the Korg.

However, if you are recording digitally, you can loop any length of anything you like for as long as you like using either the D1200 or the D1600 so the second criticism is a bit of a nonsense.

The AW16G only has two powered XLR inputs, Id make sure this isn't going to be a problem, especially if you want to record a lot of stuff simultaneously. It also can't record at 24 bit and 20GB HDD can fill up quickly.

In defense of Korg check out:

http://www.korgstudios.com (everything Korg recording)

or even

http://www.vsplanet.com (for the Roland v-studio kit which, though I have never played with it, also sounds good!)

You will be able to find (Mk I) D1600s on eBay for cheep cheep cheep in the next couple of months as people will be upgrading to the new D1600 MK II or the even newer D16XD / D32XD. If you are not interested in USB data transfer (I was burning .wav files to a CD-RW and sneaker netting the tracks to my PC) or working with MIDI (other than Midi synch), these bits of kit will be a real bargain (I’m guessing well under a grand).
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

#5

Yes, the pres on the Korg are not the best (not to say they are rubbish). I use external pres for everything and shoot into the D1200 or the PC using S/PDIF. This way I totally bypass the pres on the Korg.

However, if you are recording digitally, you can loop any length of anything you like for as long as you like using either the D1200 or the D1600 so the second criticism is a bit of a nonsense.

The AW16G only has two powered XLR inputs, Id make sure this isn't going to be a problem, especially if you want to record a lot of stuff simultaneously. It also can't record at 24 bit and 20GB HDD can fill up quickly.

In defense of Korg check out:

http://www.korgstudios.com (everything Korg recording)

or even

http://www.vsplanet.com (for the Roland v-studio kit which, though I have never played with it, also sounds good!)

You will be able to find (Mk I) D1600s on eBay for cheep cheep cheep in the next couple of months as people will be upgrading to the new D1600 MK II or the even newer D16XD / D32XD. If you are not interested in USB data transfer (I was burning .wav files to a CD-RW and sneaker netting the tracks to my PC) or working with MIDI (other than Midi synch), these bits of kit will be a real bargain (I’m guessing well under a grand).
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

Registered User

Joined: 07/15/02

Posts: 111

hmm, does the korg have more than 2 powered XLR's? I'm an electronics student, so I've already made a phantom power hookup for a friend, and I've been working on XLR-TRS converters, so hopefully that wouldnt be too much of a problem.
Do you have any views on the AKAI DPS16 or the Roland VS1880 at all? I'm trying to get the best deal I can and I dont want to have to buy a system, then buy a seperate mic pre amp just to get a decent mix, I'm sure you can appreciate that!
I've been reading reviews on the sound on sound website, of all the workstations I can find, and it seems that they're all very good, but the yamaha was the one I had my heart set on so to speak, so it's very hard thinking about choosing a totally different brand and machine.
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

#6

hmm, does the korg have more than 2 powered XLR's? I'm an electronics student, so I've already made a phantom power hookup for a friend, and I've been working on XLR-TRS converters, so hopefully that wouldnt be too much of a problem.
Do you have any views on the AKAI DPS16 or the Roland VS1880 at all? I'm trying to get the best deal I can and I dont want to have to buy a system, then buy a seperate mic pre amp just to get a decent mix, I'm sure you can appreciate that!
I've been reading reviews on the sound on sound website, of all the workstations I can find, and it seems that they're all very good, but the yamaha was the one I had my heart set on so to speak, so it's very hard thinking about choosing a totally different brand and machine.
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 07/06/02

Posts: 5021

The D1600 has 4 powered XLRs and another 4 TRS. I chose the D1600 as the best buy for me when I was looking to spend 1600 USD on a recorder about a year ago.

I since then discovered I didn't need that many simultaneous inputs cos I was recording me and only doing over dubs. I also wanted USB as I had started getting into computer recording. SO I sold the D1600 and got me a second hand D1200 from Mr eBay. and with the profit, got a Gibson Studio LP.

I think that whatever you get, for vox at the least, you will eventually want a nice preamp and a reasonable condenser mic however, which one (as with the recorder) will depend solely on A) application and B) your own preference. Everyone sounds slightly different and suits certain bits of kit. I sound dreadful through an SM58 and at least halfway decent through an SM57.

There are issues with the D1600 Pres however they also depend on your own learning curve and supporting kit. What Im saying is there is no point getting a Avalon pre if you are feeding it with a $5 computer mic. I have heard some belting recordings done with a D1600 and no extra outboard kit.

At the end of the day, Id think about what you want to do, assign a budget, audition bits of kit and get the ones you like the best. I would also think about upgradeability as in about a year, with perseverance, even a once complete novice will be looking for ways to get an extra 5%.

When I sold my old D1600 it had not become a rate limiting step, I had just changed the way I thought about recording i.e. I wanted to be able to edit multiple scrub tracks simultaneously and whilst Sonar was happy to do that, the D1600 wasn’t.
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

#7

The D1600 has 4 powered XLRs and another 4 TRS. I chose the D1600 as the best buy for me when I was looking to spend 1600 USD on a recorder about a year ago.

I since then discovered I didn't need that many simultaneous inputs cos I was recording me and only doing over dubs. I also wanted USB as I had started getting into computer recording. SO I sold the D1600 and got me a second hand D1200 from Mr eBay. and with the profit, got a Gibson Studio LP.

I think that whatever you get, for vox at the least, you will eventually want a nice preamp and a reasonable condenser mic however, which one (as with the recorder) will depend solely on A) application and B) your own preference. Everyone sounds slightly different and suits certain bits of kit. I sound dreadful through an SM58 and at least halfway decent through an SM57.

There are issues with the D1600 Pres however they also depend on your own learning curve and supporting kit. What Im saying is there is no point getting a Avalon pre if you are feeding it with a $5 computer mic. I have heard some belting recordings done with a D1600 and no extra outboard kit.

At the end of the day, Id think about what you want to do, assign a budget, audition bits of kit and get the ones you like the best. I would also think about upgradeability as in about a year, with perseverance, even a once complete novice will be looking for ways to get an extra 5%.

When I sold my old D1600 it had not become a rate limiting step, I had just changed the way I thought about recording i.e. I wanted to be able to edit multiple scrub tracks simultaneously and whilst Sonar was happy to do that, the D1600 wasn’t.
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

Registered User

Joined: 07/15/02

Posts: 111

Yeah, I'm thinking of actually waiting a few months till I get my student loan, then I'll be able to afford a 4416 instead of the 16G, the hard drive in there is upgradeable, and also you can add extra preamps, XLR inputs and the like, as well as ADAT interface. It can record at true 24 bit resolution, has the 16 sample pads rather than 4 and also has cool stuff like motorised faders!
I'll also be adding a computer to my setup at some point, this thing is my mom's laptop so I cant really make use of it.
Also I was thinking of buying a rode ntk mic for vocals and acoustic guitar, ever use a true tube mic? if so how are they? are they worth the investment over an NT1?
thanks for all this help, I really appreciate the advice!
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

#8

Yeah, I'm thinking of actually waiting a few months till I get my student loan, then I'll be able to afford a 4416 instead of the 16G, the hard drive in there is upgradeable, and also you can add extra preamps, XLR inputs and the like, as well as ADAT interface. It can record at true 24 bit resolution, has the 16 sample pads rather than 4 and also has cool stuff like motorised faders!
I'll also be adding a computer to my setup at some point, this thing is my mom's laptop so I cant really make use of it.
Also I was thinking of buying a rode ntk mic for vocals and acoustic guitar, ever use a true tube mic? if so how are they? are they worth the investment over an NT1?
thanks for all this help, I really appreciate the advice!
guns dont kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they've got a gun)

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 07/06/02

Posts: 5021

If you are serious about it, I’d get the best gear you can afford.

If you want to know more about mics you could check out the mic forum at

http://www.homerecording.com

but watch your step it can get a little rough !
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS

#9

If you are serious about it, I’d get the best gear you can afford.

If you want to know more about mics you could check out the mic forum at

http://www.homerecording.com

but watch your step it can get a little rough !
My instructors page and http://www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS