Beginners ear.

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ddiddler

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Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

I now play a better acoustic guitar. A Faith Naked Parlour

doing the usual noodling with one string riffs etc I was able to change my one string SotW from a one string to a more compact 2 string riff allowing practice of power chords as well as finger practice.

My 8th fret E string sounds exactly like my 3rd fret A string. A C note

A while since I picked up my electric and my E string sounds drony and these same frets do not sound alike.

I suspect my E may be an octave low but it seems a big wind to go up to the next octave.

I'm going to change strings today so I will give it that final push.

Can someone please give me the assurance that my understanding is correct.

Moving down 2 and up 2 will give the same note an octave above and if the fretboard allows moving down 1 and down 6 should give the exact same note. discounting the usual adjustment on the B string

when doing the manual tuning using the 5th fret the notes should be exact not just something like

Thanks

Dave

#1

I now play a better acoustic guitar. A Faith Naked Parlour

doing the usual noodling with one string riffs etc I was able to change my one string SotW from a one string to a more compact 2 string riff allowing practice of power chords as well as finger practice.

My 8th fret E string sounds exactly like my 3rd fret A string. A C note

A while since I picked up my electric and my E string sounds drony and these same frets do not sound alike.

I suspect my E may be an octave low but it seems a big wind to go up to the next octave.

I'm going to change strings today so I will give it that final push.

Can someone please give me the assurance that my understanding is correct.

Moving down 2 and up 2 will give the same note an octave above and if the fretboard allows moving down 1 and down 6 should give the exact same note. discounting the usual adjustment on the B string

when doing the manual tuning using the 5th fret the notes should be exact not just something like

Thanks

Dave

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7371

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
Moving down 2 and up 2 will give the same note an octave above

Yes. To be precise, up in frets means towards the bridge, up in strings means towards the floor.

Up 2 frets & up 2 strings is the same note letter one octave higher.

Down 2 frets & down 2 strings is the same note letter one octave lower.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
and if the fretboard allows moving down 1 and down 6 should give the exact same note.

That's 5 not counting the note you start on.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
discounting the usual adjustment on the B string

That's 4 frets again not counting the note you start on.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
when doing the manual tuning using the 5th fret the notes should be exact not just something like

Yes, the exact same ptich. But keep in mind there will sometimes be differences in timbre, in the quality of the tone (open strings generally sound brighter compared to fretted string notes, wound strings sound darker, more bassy, the higher you fret them, unwound strings sound brighter, more trebley).

Best of success!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#2

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
Moving down 2 and up 2 will give the same note an octave above

Yes. To be precise, up in frets means towards the bridge, up in strings means towards the floor.

Up 2 frets & up 2 strings is the same note letter one octave higher.

Down 2 frets & down 2 strings is the same note letter one octave lower.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
and if the fretboard allows moving down 1 and down 6 should give the exact same note.

That's 5 not counting the note you start on.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
discounting the usual adjustment on the B string

That's 4 frets again not counting the note you start on.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler
when doing the manual tuning using the 5th fret the notes should be exact not just something like

Yes, the exact same ptich. But keep in mind there will sometimes be differences in timbre, in the quality of the tone (open strings generally sound brighter compared to fretted string notes, wound strings sound darker, more bassy, the higher you fret them, unwound strings sound brighter, more trebley).

Best of success!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

ddiddler

Full Access

Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

Well had some fun.

Thanks Christopher

Lesson learnt re terminology. I should have known that so lazy on my part.
Almost up the next E and wondering if I might have to do the same to the A when the string gave way.

Not so much a break as an unravelling of the outer wind.

So string change went fine with slinky 9s.

E and A wound tight and D snapped.
So swapped a 24 from the 9s with a 22 from an 8 set and started again
GBE sound relatively alike trying manual tuning

Can't quite get my head around EAD manual tuning

go higher on E and it does go higher than the A

So had fun playing around.

Go a couple of steps higher on one string but bring the next string down and hey presto they match as open strings.

I now know I'm in the ballpark and reset the strings back up and down accordingly.

Everything in step going up the strings

I still feel the low E sounds low and 8th fret and 3rd fret of A don't match up. A sounds higher.

but I've taken E to G and A down to G and they match so that's where I am.

New strings and a better handle on my tuning tensions.

Thanks again

#3

Well had some fun.

Thanks Christopher

Lesson learnt re terminology. I should have known that so lazy on my part.
Almost up the next E and wondering if I might have to do the same to the A when the string gave way.

Not so much a break as an unravelling of the outer wind.

So string change went fine with slinky 9s.

E and A wound tight and D snapped.
So swapped a 24 from the 9s with a 22 from an 8 set and started again
GBE sound relatively alike trying manual tuning

Can't quite get my head around EAD manual tuning

go higher on E and it does go higher than the A

So had fun playing around.

Go a couple of steps higher on one string but bring the next string down and hey presto they match as open strings.

I now know I'm in the ballpark and reset the strings back up and down accordingly.

Everything in step going up the strings

I still feel the low E sounds low and 8th fret and 3rd fret of A don't match up. A sounds higher.

but I've taken E to G and A down to G and they match so that's where I am.

New strings and a better handle on my tuning tensions.

Thanks again

JeffS65

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Joined: 10/07/08

Posts: 1545

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

I suspect my E may be an octave low but it seems a big wind to go up to the next octave.

I'm going to change strings today so I will give it that final push.

Also use the reference tuner here at GT to get to the right pitch/octave/note. So, as you tune, tune up to the E (whatever octave) and use the reference tuner to see if you are too low and go up to the next using the reference tuner as a way to now that you're in the ballpark.

I would only change the low E first and not all strings at the same time. I've only ever done a full string removal once in all my playing but did so to do some work on my guitar. Otherwise, if you remove them all, youve removed all string tension and may offset the current truss rod tension. Most probably, you wouldn't, but no reason to mess up the setup when it's just as easy to change strings one at a time.

#4

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

I suspect my E may be an octave low but it seems a big wind to go up to the next octave.

I'm going to change strings today so I will give it that final push.

Also use the reference tuner here at GT to get to the right pitch/octave/note. So, as you tune, tune up to the E (whatever octave) and use the reference tuner to see if you are too low and go up to the next using the reference tuner as a way to now that you're in the ballpark.

I would only change the low E first and not all strings at the same time. I've only ever done a full string removal once in all my playing but did so to do some work on my guitar. Otherwise, if you remove them all, youve removed all string tension and may offset the current truss rod tension. Most probably, you wouldn't, but no reason to mess up the setup when it's just as easy to change strings one at a time.

ddiddler

Full Access

Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

Thanks Jeff

I was using tuners to guide me as well as trying my ear

How I was able to match adjacent strings to a note and using my ear to hear if they were of the same pitch.
I'm not experienced enough to know if it's an intonation issue. Would that be possible on just one string.

A string set from a manufacturer will definitely be chosen to match up.
Setting E and A to a G and they sound alike but when back to their respective notes the notes on G don't sound the same notes as matching notes on the A but indicate the same on a tuner.

Same notes on A and D match up and so on up the strings.

Google throws up some users with a similar issue with the usual contrary fixes. Go heavier with E string , go lighter with E string. File the nut etc etc.

I have new strings now and it's not a life or death issue. Just a bug

thanks

Dave.

#5

Thanks Jeff

I was using tuners to guide me as well as trying my ear

How I was able to match adjacent strings to a note and using my ear to hear if they were of the same pitch.
I'm not experienced enough to know if it's an intonation issue. Would that be possible on just one string.

A string set from a manufacturer will definitely be chosen to match up.
Setting E and A to a G and they sound alike but when back to their respective notes the notes on G don't sound the same notes as matching notes on the A but indicate the same on a tuner.

Same notes on A and D match up and so on up the strings.

Google throws up some users with a similar issue with the usual contrary fixes. Go heavier with E string , go lighter with E string. File the nut etc etc.

I have new strings now and it's not a life or death issue. Just a bug

thanks

Dave.

ddiddler

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Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

Humour me

E string. 3,6,8,3,6,9,8

now I should be able to play A 3 and A 4,3 but there is an audible step change.

can move this down to A and D strings and no step change.

Dave

#6

Humour me

E string. 3,6,8,3,6,9,8

now I should be able to play A 3 and A 4,3 but there is an audible step change.

can move this down to A and D strings and no step change.

Dave

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7371

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

Humour me

E string. 3,6,8,3,6,9,8

That's the single note version of the main riff from Smoke On The Water.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

now I should be able to play A 3 and A 4,3 but there is an audible step change.

I'm assuming you mean you are trying to play the C & D-flat from the riff on the A string instead of the E string. But it doesn't sound right?

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

can move this down to A and D strings and no step change.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Maybe that you can transpose the riff up a 4th to the A string & the notes are right?

It sounds like either your intonation on your E is off, or the action might be too high making the higher fretted notes slightly too high in pitch.

Is that what you are getting at?

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#7

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

Humour me

E string. 3,6,8,3,6,9,8

That's the single note version of the main riff from Smoke On The Water.

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

now I should be able to play A 3 and A 4,3 but there is an audible step change.

I'm assuming you mean you are trying to play the C & D-flat from the riff on the A string instead of the E string. But it doesn't sound right?

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

can move this down to A and D strings and no step change.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Maybe that you can transpose the riff up a 4th to the A string & the notes are right?

It sounds like either your intonation on your E is off, or the action might be too high making the higher fretted notes slightly too high in pitch.

Is that what you are getting at?

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

ddiddler

Full Access

Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

Yes, to my moves and the smoke on water.

possibly yes to the fix. but the E sounds low to the A so possibly a higher action needed.

one other suggestion I have seen is to adjust the pick ups height.

I need to experiment and explore any differences using each of the pick ups and in combination?

If the string reads E open and at 12th fret then that would be intonated but action could have an effect at different frets.

More fun to be had

Dave

#8

Yes, to my moves and the smoke on water.

possibly yes to the fix. but the E sounds low to the A so possibly a higher action needed.

one other suggestion I have seen is to adjust the pick ups height.

I need to experiment and explore any differences using each of the pick ups and in combination?

If the string reads E open and at 12th fret then that would be intonated but action could have an effect at different frets.

More fun to be had

Dave

ddiddler

Full Access

Joined: 05/13/20

Posts: 235

Intonation was fine.

Raised the action on E a full turn

Raised action on A quarter turn.

Better all round.

Squire Bullet Mustang with individual saddles

Thanks everyone

Dave

#9

Intonation was fine.

Raised the action on E a full turn

Raised action on A quarter turn.

Better all round.

Squire Bullet Mustang with individual saddles

Thanks everyone

Dave

ChristopherSchlegel

Guitar Tricks Instructor

Joined: 08/09/05

Posts: 7371

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

Intonation was fine.

Raised the action on E a full turn

Raised action on A quarter turn.

Better all round.

Squire Bullet Mustang with individual saddles

Thanks everyone

You're welcome! Glad you figured it out!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory

#10

Originally Posted by: ddiddler

Intonation was fine.

Raised the action on E a full turn

Raised action on A quarter turn.

Better all round.

Squire Bullet Mustang with individual saddles

Thanks everyone

You're welcome! Glad you figured it out!

Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory