Can someone pick up the guitar later in life and become a virtuoso

I started playing guitar at age 17. I'm 35 now. Pretty much I'm a self taught, play by ear, type of guy--with no formal training. My skills are mediocre. I just play casually.

If I wanted to take lessons and practice a lot could I acquire skills that rival the best? Before you say "yes, you can do anything you put your mind to" think about these points below.

Athletically it would be impossible for me at age 35 to become a professional gymnast, football player, ice skater, tennis player, or body builder. Some things are best learned from development.

Mentally it would be impossible for me to become a chess grand master or even master. I learned chess at 20, and my skills have improved, but with very few exceptions, like learning a language, high level chess is best reserved for development in children/youth.

So with that being said...guitar is physical and mental. Would I suffer the limitations of adult beginner students in other areas that has been proven, or can I acquire high level guitar playing as an adult.

P.S. I just bought a year of lessons on Guitar tricks. I am learning a lot of great skills--but I'm just curious is there a limit on what an adult can do in this area.

Short answer.....no

It's harder...the skills come slower with age (that trait often referred to as cognitive plasticity) but, *other factors being the same* I can't think of any reason age would prevent reaching a high skill level. If, at a young age one had the aptitude to become accomplished, that aptitude should be accessible at a later age.

Here, http://www.neatorama.com/2011/06/10/5-musicians-who-had-to-relearn-their-craft/ , are some stories of musicians that learned to play their instrument *again* after suffering injuries. One, Jerry Garcia, had to relearn basic motor skills after a five-day coma.

An even more eye-opening example is the jazz guitarist, Pat Martino. "Pat Martino made a remarkable comeback after brain surgery in 1980 to correct an aneurysm caused him to *lose his memory and completely forget how to play*. It took years, but he regained his ability,..." http://www.playjazzguitar.com/pat_martino.html He was 42 when he resumed playing.

Of course, other-factors-being-the-same is a pretty big qualifier. Sometimes other factors hinder, sometimes they help. That said, I'm progressing much faster than I did when I was a kid taking lessons and I'm well beyond 35...it's faster precisely 'cause my other factors aren't the same. :)

IMO, age slows down attainment, it doesn't prevent it. Yes, you will suffer the limitations of an adult beginner but how far you go is determined by you and how well you control those other (limiting) factors.

Originally Posted by: john of MT... but how far you go is determined by you and how well you control those other (limiting) factors.

You can't control things beyond your control. Like getting older and all the "limiting factors" that comes with it. Regardless of how much you don't want it to and how hard you try, old age does hinder abilities as the body and mind slow down. You can try to minimize it, but stopping it fully (which you would have to do to compete with the younger people) isn't an option.

First, I believe the challenge of becoming a virtuoso at anything involving motor skills starting at a later age has as much to do with the physical body than anything else. When you start young your muscles, tendons and joints adapt, grow and strengthen with the activity you are engaging in.

The thing I do better than anything else is golf. I started at 10. By the time I was 20 the muscles used to move the golf club in the proper positions and with speed were well developed through my growing years. I have seen older people take up the game and watched them struggle because their bodies are less supple and less strong. While I have lost some distance as I age my "golfing" muscles are still strong and fast compared to younger people who are just getting started, but I am a better player than ever before primarily due to mental maturity. The fact that you started playing at 17 helps since you caught the tail end of your physically formative years and probably have fairly well developed "guitar" muscles, depending on how much you actually played.

Second, there is the time factor. If you started playing at 7 like Yngwie Malmsteen, by the time you were 20 you would have a massive amount of practice time under the belt, and your body would still be getting stronger. By the time he was your age he had 28 years of intense guitar playing experience.

Third, is the talent factor. Have you ever had "guitar" talent? Only you can answer that question. Without God given talent you will never rival the best.

All that being said, I believe you could get good enough to impress a lot of people...but rival the best?

Use it or lose it. Aging affects everyone until the end. But the effects most certainly can be mitigated and quality of life made better than it otherwise would be.

I've watched acquaintenaces and family members say, either aloud or by their actions, "I'm old now." They basically quit learning, quit striving to improve, quit trying new things. They sat down and waited for God. Not surprisingly, their later years were not quality ones...certainly not as good as they could have been. Be careful when describing the physical effects and expectations of aging...many of the ill effects derive not so much from aging but from inactivity (physical and mental). And/or some other choice; e.g., smoking, obesity, substance abuse, etc.

To paraphrase George Burns, "There's nothing I can't do at 90 that I could do at 18. Which shows how pitiful I was at 18." :D In my senior years I find I'm stronger and in better shape then as a young adult because I exercise and gave up smoking long ago. My fret hand strength and flexibility is much greater because I practice more. IMO, most could say the same if they wanted it enough to take the proper actions.

Yup, aging grabs us all. But we have some control over how long we get to go and a lot of control over how good that journey is going to be. It's no surprise to me to find lots of really old musicians stil playing. As for guitar, until I can't play or quit "I'm never going to be as bad as I am today."

Why worry if you can rival the best guitarists out there? Playing the guitar is relaxing, fun and satisfying even if you can only strum three chords. I'd say just enjoy your music for its own sake.......you may not become the best player but hell, you're still a guitarist, unlike 95% of the rest of the population! Best wishes, Steve

I think that you can aquire a high level of skill any age if you work at it, so don't let your current age become a roadblock to achieving what you would like. So what if some kid who started early is really great by the time he's 20? Music, like art, is a personal journey, and a personal experience. I'm not gonna give up just because someone else is already a great guitarist, or because someone thinks that I'm too old.

The day I stop learning is the day I stop living. So far, I'm still alive :-)

I have seen first hand many students succeed when they started in their 30's and up. No question, no limitations :)
Remember to take an effective practising approach with your gameplan!

Bryan

This thread has been well-answered, but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyways as its a good discussion.

Hunter is right, you're not likely going to be able to "compete" with lighting fast blazing guitar demons out there at this point. But why would you want to? Do you really want to be able to fire off "solos" that sound like you just got the high score to some 80's arcade game? If not, then you can't be the "best" because no one can. There's no one guitarist who can do it all. There are just way too many styles out there, there is no way any one guitarist can claim to be the best. Some metal shredders out there are very proficient at acoustic guitar, but most of them are not. They have focused on using light strings, flat, low action necks and just find making the jump to heavy gauge strings and a higher action too much. Its also probably not their passion. So really, I think a big part is just finding what you are passionate about, and let that motivate you.

On a more practical note I'd say if you really want to improve, approach like an adult, and practice like a kid. In other words, get organized, focused and disciplined. Then, practice for at least 2 or 3 hours a day. That's if you really want to "conquer" the instrument. I think a lot of adults just don't dedicate enough time to regular practice to really get ahead... work, family, and social activities get in the way. Most of the younger, really accomplished guitarists I've met are some what reclusive, and really spend a lot of time with their instrument. Kids are fortunate in that the tend to be able to dedicate plenty of time to practice if they have the desire.

You can always just be happy with where you are at, and where you are going. Having fun is the most important thing, and if you're satisfied with your playing you don't have to prove yourself to anyone else.

There have been some good things said here. I've been lucky enough to meet and spend time with some of the best guitarist on the planet. Malmsteen is one of them. I'll tell you this. All of them have one thing in common and it's not starting to play at an early age. Its a solid practice routine and an expert knowledge of music theory specifically related to their instrument. These things are taught by teachers and learned by focused students. If your not Focused FUGEDABOWDIT. I've been lucky enough to ask John Petrucci exactly what he does to be and stay that good. Do you know he has someone on the payroll that catalogs all the lessons in all the guitar magazines? All the time and has been doing this for YEARS and YEARS. He Cuts them out and Files them and the guy can recall them at any given moment, scan them and send them to John regardless of where he is on the planet. John puts an unbelievable amount of time into practice DAILY! Most People don't have or won't sacrifice anything else to make the required Time to be as good as him. Most people also don't have the discipline to practice like John does. I once heard Geddy Lee say. "This is my Job and Just like you, I spend 8 hours a day doing it 5 days a week". So My thought is YES you can be a virtuoso but it depends on what you're willing to put into becoming one. There is some truth to all the crap about muscle memory and age. But the real truth is that we are destroying ourselves and although we live longer today, we also age faster than ever now. Why? It all has to do with what you put in your body. You can over come that by changing your diet. Muscles lose flexibility when they become too acidic and when they don't get challenged. So if you drink Soda pop which is highly acidic expect to find limitations in picking speed and fret stretch ability early on. Water is about the most important thing you can change. Drink High Antioxidant, High Alkaline water that has micro-clustering (Google Kangen Water or contact me. I'm on it so is Steven Tyler and a grip of other pros). You need about 3 liters a day to flush the toxins out of your cells. And you will see a difference in a week. Then of course don't eat crap like fast food and you need to exercise 3 to 5 times a week. You need to practice Guitar DAILY though and if you have a finger exerciser....USE IT.
That's my Two Centavos.

It all depends on dedication. Muscle memory doesn't stop at any certain age, but it tends to take longer to get it to click. I went through a similar thing as you. I played in punk bands when I was young after my dad showed me how to play a few chords. I didn't care about lead guitar, or theory at all. After my kids got older, and my wife asked me to find a new place to live, I decided I wanted to actually learn how to play. I had a lot of time to practice - literally 2 hours a day after work, and 4-6 hours on weekends playing the same diatonic, and pentatonic patterns until not only did I play them well, but I actually understood how to use them. And, I spent countless hours on sites like these learning licks, and riffs. A lot of tips from this site. Anyway, 2 years after the obsession to be a good guitar player, I'm pretty good - Not a virtuoso, but moving in that direction. I guess, what takes a 15 year old 1 year is like 2-4 when we get older. And, I just want to be great because i love it, and that's what I want for myself. It's passion bordering on obsession, and even if I'm playing alone, i want it to be the best it can be.
Dedication and practice routine.....

Tal Farlow picked up the guitar at age 21 and within a couple of years, he was playing the big time. Okay 21 may not be 35, but it's hardly childhood. In addition to extra hours of free time to pursue playtime activity, children have fewer distractions on the table. If you can spend a couple of hours a day focusing on self-improvement, you may not reach the pinnacle stage of virtuoso, but you can reach the plateau of accomplished musician.

How do you focus? Utilizing Guitar Tricks is a good first stop, but you have to organize your learning so that it's all tied together in one package that includes your eyes, your ears, your fingers and your brain.

EYES—Learn to read standard notation. Tab is fine, but it doesn't show you the phrasing and the underlying harmonic relationships between notes, which will give your creativity an edge. Several good learn-to-read books with accompanying CDs are available at Amazon. If you go with the program, you should be fairly adept at reading single lines from fake books within six months. Integrating those lines with the overlying chord symbols will start you on your way to improvisation.

EARS—Music is all about what we hear. Right? How does one learn to play by ear? First, make up a list of simple songs such as Old MacDonald Had a Farm or Hundred Bottles of Beer on the Wall, and flesh out their notes on your own without resorting to any type of notational crib sheet. Play them vanilla-style (single line). Then play them over their chords and try to throw in peddle notes and banjo rolls from the chordal harmonies. When that starts to sound plain-Jane to you, add in some passing chromatic notes in the off beats. Slide up from a half note below or down from a full note above the harmonic target note, which will occur on the down or the up beat. If this sounds Band-in-the-Box formulaic, it is, but it will open up harmonic possibilities to you. As your rhythmic sense gets more sophisticated, you can jump the beat (syncopate), and swing the phrasing from the up to down beats. Before moving on to more complex melodies, practice the easy stuff in different keys and in different positions on the neck. Learn to arpeggiate into a target note as well as hit it from an ascending or a descending scale. On those pregnant half notes that occur at the ends of the fourth and eighth bars, learn to throw in fills based on the previous few notes you played. Try to make them voice lead into the second verse or the refrain.

FINGERS—Practice your scales and especially your arpeggios, but don't go overboard. If you practice scales for five hours a day, you'll be great at it, but that's all you'll be great at. Learn to play solo instrumentals. After you learn to read music, I would suggest that you take a crack at The Complete Works of Fernando Sor. His studies are very musical and will teach you a lot about harmonic structure as well as give your fingers a workout. Other good books to stretch your technique include guitar methods by fellow old masters Matteo Carcassi and Mauro Giuliani. If you can get half way through any of those books, reading a fake book piece at first sight will be a walk in the park. Be that as it may, you've got to give some to get some. Practice!

BRAIN—Some students excel at sight reading, but have no idea of what they are playing. A former music teacher of mine used to call them transcriptionists. If he thought that I was getting too cozy with the notation, he would pull the book away and tell me to fake it. Once I understood the underlying chord changes, I could BS my way through almost any piece. That's because I understood musical theory and knew my circle of fifths as well as such sundry facts that diminishing a chord would provide a nice lead in to the dominant fifth chord or that augmenting a chord would smooth the way to a subdominant fourth or take me from the dominant chord back to the tonic chord. I don't think about that kind of stuff anymore. It just happens.

So there you have it. Some artists play just three cowboy chords and they sell millions of records. Most virtuosos you may never ever heard of. Check out Julian Bream, John Williams, Sharon Isbin or that newest upstart, Ana Vidovic on You Tube. Are you still sure you want to be a virtuoso?

Technically, no.

But if you have something to say, then yes.

Originally Posted by: EkehMayuTechnically, no.

But if you have something to say, then yes.

Best answer ever!

I think you can acquire a high level of skill regardless of your age assuming you are physically capable. Lets face it, even if you start young your odds of becoming an accomplished guitarist are pretty close to nil. Usually people that go on to be really great at anything are born with a certain talent and an inner drive that most people simply don't possess.

Originally Posted by: zPeterI think you can acquire a high level of skill regardless of your age assuming you are physically capable. Lets face it, even if you start young your odds of becoming an accomplished guitarist are pretty close to nil. Usually people that go on to be really great at anything are born with a certain talent and an inner drive that most people simply don't possess.

Maybe that is the best answer... :)

Whatever we want to do or not do, we shouldn't allow ourselves to merely sit "like desperados waiting for a train."

Originally Posted by: john of MTMaybe that is the best answer... :)

Yeah, but I would take issue with the term "accomplished".. I realize I'm being nit-picky, but I think almost anyone, at any age, can become an "accomplished" guitar player. Really, to me, the secret is just doing what you do to the best of your ability, while staying within your natural limitations. In other words, you may not be able to learn how to be a blazing virtuoso at age 50, but you CAN learn how to play chords cleanly, stay in time, keep your picking tight, etc.

Some of the most popular songs out there are really not that complicated or hard to learn. If someone learns to play stuff that sounds nice, and plays well, I'm sure people would consider them an "accomplished" guitar player. Look at Neil Young with "A Horse With No Name"... just one chord. What I like about EkehMayu's answer is that there are tons of guitar players out there that have studied theory theory theory scale substitution X = Y plus the extra note etc... only to have no clue of what to play when someone says "hey, lets jam to this tune". I've witnessed it first hand. Theory is by no means a replacement for creativity. I'm not saying its bad, I'm saying its easy for players to get so immersed in it that they lose sight of just "making music". I knew one guy we "jammed" with who knew all his diatonic modes, could play legato all that kind of stuff... and was just clueless when it came to coming up with his own ideas. Really, he just froze up with a blank look on his face and then would just blame us saying the song was weird or something.

I don't think guys like David Gilmour or The Edge studied theory intensely, and yet the solos from "Comfortably Numb" and "New Years Day" are among my favorites. They clearly had "something to say". But I also really liked Eric Johnson's "Cliffs of Dover", which I think would be pretty challenging for either of those two guitar players. I think in the 1980's the question was more relevant, because being the "best guitarist in the world" meant being a shredder. Now, there are just so many popular styles, that the question is really moot. There's really no way that anyone can claim top spot, as there is sure to be some other area of guitar that they are just not proficient in. Steve Vai was really impressed by Michel Hedges, for example. So really, in the end, its just about playing from the heart, doing it because you enjoy it, but still making an effort to do it as best as you can. What people think of you & your abilities after that is really beyond your control, so why worry about it?

+1. Good stuff.

I think of 'accomplished' not totally virtuosically but in terms of command of the instrument in whatever discipline that was played. In the way that Lizard said above.

I was a shredder back in the 80's. Pretty good too. They used to have guitar competitions for shredders back then. I entered two of these. They would select the top tapes from 100's/1000's of tapes. One competition took the top twenty and the other the top ten. I performed in the the one that took the twenty players. The other, I did not perform but was the 'A Alternate', I came to find out that was the '11th guy' out of 10. So, not bad.

That was then with hours a day of practicing. I enjoyed it but it didn't mean anything. Now, every once in a while, I whip out the shred licks but it's not what drives me.

I was recording some stuff last weekend (I mentioned this in another post) and I wanted to nail a section. I still do. It is very few notes but if done right, would add a lot.

It's command of the instrument. I think of technical ability as something that allows you to execute what you wish with authority. Physical prowess is only important if it helps to play what you wish and like you mean it.

People have often enough said nice things about my ability but I don't hear it (do we ever??). I don't know that I will ever have the level of command that makes me happy.

Then again, I like the process of trying and that is what playing is really about.