"Thou shall not" gone!


chucklivesoninmyheart
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chucklivesoninmyheart
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08/27/2003 5:18 pm
I had to post on this...
If you didn't know,the(in a big deep voice)"Ten Commandments" monument display has been taken down in alabama from the judicial building.Not a big whoop for me,but my elders in the family have been going on and making a fuss about this.Is it just me or are the big ten(exept for a few of them)just common sense?Any person with a shred of decency follows at least 4-5 of them.A large part of America strives to follow them all(and fails hard).
Some would find this a political subject(half of it is),but for everyone I know it has been deeply personal.Share your thoughts.
Try once,fail twice...
# 1
Gainer
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Gainer
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08/27/2003 5:31 pm
It's stupid to take it down. I try to be somewhat religeous(That is how i was brought up to be)but you are right, most people only follow 4-5 of them but should try hard to do them all. they are COMMANDments not suggestions.
I don't know if that's an opinion but i voiced my thoughts.
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# 2
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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08/27/2003 5:40 pm
I don’t think the American constitution is stupid in the slightest and this monument violates it. "Stupid" describes the now "removed" judge who had them installed in the middle of the night ! Do you not think it slightly odd that the rest of the judiciary were unanimous in there decision to have it removed ?

I thing that when the state tries to shove religion down your throat and bases laws on it you are in danger of becoming a theocracy rather than a democracy. Freedom to choose the religion of your choice is fundamental to being a free people and is a right that seems to have come under fire recently (ask any American Muslim post 9/11).

Me, Im pleased to see it go !

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# 3
chucklivesoninmyheart
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chucklivesoninmyheart
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08/27/2003 5:41 pm
I think your thought formed an opinion.;)
Try once,fail twice...
# 4
Pantallica1
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Pantallica1
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08/27/2003 6:27 pm
I agree that they shouldn't try to shove religion down people's throat.

I agree that it should probably have been taken down, seperation of church and state.

But this government has been doing things that aren't very cool lately anyway. Taking out, "One nation, under God...." from the Pledge of Allegiance? That's stupid in my opinion. God, is whoever you perceive Him to be. It could be my God, your god, anyone's god. Just because it's says "God" doesn't mean it's Jesus Christ. Hell, our currency still says, "In God we trust"

Another thing is prayer in school. Should they ban it? No. Should they MAKE people participate in it? No. If you want to pray, then pray, that shouldn't be against the rules.

I'm no bible-huggin, crucifix wearin', 'Honk if you love Jesus' person, but I believe in God. I don't go to church, because I don't see the need for someone to tell me how to interpret the Bible. I interpret how I want too. I don't think anyone should be shunned for their beliefs.

Just my 2c.
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# 5
Gainer
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Gainer
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08/27/2003 7:07 pm
Originally posted by Pantallica1

I'm no bible-huggin, crucifix wearin', 'Honk if you love Jesus' person, but I believe in God. I don't go to church, because I don't see the need for someone to tell me how to interpret the Bible. I interpret how I want too. I don't think anyone should be shunned for their beliefs.


Neither am i, it's really none of my buisness anyway cause i'm canadian
(american rock though)
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# 6
zepp_rules
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zepp_rules
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08/27/2003 8:37 pm
i'm glad, i like to worship many gods, and my neighbor's wife is so hot :P
To improve technique and of course trying to keep all as clean as possible. I know my own limits and speed limits and so on I never play anything I'm not capable of. That wouldn't make any sense. After three years of playing I tried to play everything as fast as possible and that sounded, I would say, like shit, and I didn't realize that if I'd play bit slower things than I was capable of playing then everything would sound much better.

--Aleksi Laiho - Advice to Play By
# 7
The Other One
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The Other One
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08/27/2003 8:54 pm
Yea i never really like to get into any one religion too much because if i do then i will feeel too controlled and unindependant...but in every religion there are good morals and so i try to follow the good morals in every religion (i.E. Buddha said that 'the root of all suffering is desire' which is one of the biggest truths of being....)
....What a long, strange trip its been.....
# 8
Dr_simon
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08/27/2003 8:54 pm
You know your gona burn for that one Zep_....I'll be seein' you there !
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# 9
zepp_rules
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zepp_rules
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08/27/2003 8:56 pm
hell, i already listen to metal
To improve technique and of course trying to keep all as clean as possible. I know my own limits and speed limits and so on I never play anything I'm not capable of. That wouldn't make any sense. After three years of playing I tried to play everything as fast as possible and that sounded, I would say, like shit, and I didn't realize that if I'd play bit slower things than I was capable of playing then everything would sound much better.

--Aleksi Laiho - Advice to Play By
# 10
Number of the Beast
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Number of the Beast
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08/28/2003 1:08 am
Originally posted by Dr_simon
I don’t think the American constitution is stupid in the slightest and this monument violates it. "Stupid" describes the now "removed" judge who had them installed in the middle of the night ! Do you not think it slightly odd that the rest of the judiciary were unanimous in there decision to have it removed ?

I thing that when the state tries to shove religion down your throat and bases laws on it you are in danger of becoming a theocracy rather than a democracy. Freedom to choose the religion of your choice is fundamental to being a free people and is a right that seems to have come under fire recently (ask any American Muslim post 9/11).

Me, Im pleased to see it go !


Wow. Have you READ the constitution? This is a monument to the original laws, not to God himself! They aren't telling people to worship the Jewish or Christian God, all they are saying is, "hey, don't murder, don't steal, don't commit adultery" etc. etc. The American Constitution states that all americans shall have complete freedom of religion, and that no person shall be forced to worship any God or forced to be a member of any church. The Constitution says nothing about building monuments to the oldest written laws in recorded history.
If I could be a solo...I think I'd be Eruption...
# 11
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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08/28/2003 1:15 am
Do you know WHY the monument is being removed ?

Read this

Quote from AP cited above
"U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson of Montgomery had ruled last year that the monument violates the Constitution's ban on government endorsement of a religious doctrine."



[Edited by Dr_simon on 08-27-2003 at 08:22 PM]
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# 12
Incidents Happen
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Incidents Happen
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08/28/2003 6:25 am
Originally posted by Dr_simon
I don’t think the American constitution is stupid in the slightest and this monument violates it. "Stupid" describes the now "removed" judge who had them installed in the middle of the night ! Do you not think it slightly odd that the rest of the judiciary were unanimous in there decision to have it removed ?

I thing that when the state tries to shove religion down your throat and bases laws on it you are in danger of becoming a theocracy rather than a democracy. Freedom to choose the religion of your choice is fundamental to being a free people and is a right that seems to have come under fire recently (ask any American Muslim post 9/11).

Me, Im pleased to see it go !



Oh yeah Simon, Alabama was really shoving religion down your throat; This whole thing (subject, not thread) is stupid, these people need to find other things to bitch about.

Why do you think that the other judiciary members voted unanimous? Not because they were against it, because if they had agreed with him, their own jobs would be in jeopardy. Why risk losing your job for some stupid thing like that?

Pretty soon, Christmas trees will be taken down in public, because it offends the Jews and the Muslims; Pretty soon, christmas songs will not be played on TV, nor will Christmas related things, or any religion. Don't you see how this is leading down the trail of the Soviet Union's Athiest viewpoint? Pretty soon, some asshole will convince the supreme court to stop allowing children to be have Christmas Parties in school because it upsets her Jewish daughter, who is busy with the $2 wooden dradle, wishing she were like the other kids. Pretty soon, everything offensive will be edited, deleted, moderated, changed, so that nobody's feelings get hurt; Books are already being banned (Fahrenheit 451 is banned in 26 countries), and books that oppose certain viewpoints will simply stop production, and eventually will burn, in the name of DIVERSITY. In the name of Freedom. And what will happen is that all reading material will be universally accepted; No real ideas will exchange, because feelings can get hurt; because the muslim doesn't want the christian pushing her views down her throat, books like the Koran and the Bible will slowly die, in the name of DIVERSITY. In the name of freedom. Every single photograph of wars from long ago will first be edited to fit the New New Brave World, with acceptance and politically correct-style fittings. Pictures of three white males hoisting the flag up at Ground Zero will turn into one white male, one black male, and one hispanic male, because that's the right thing to do. Because our government doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, historical records are changed. I didn't see a hispanic raising a flag on 9/11, did you? No, you didn't, but in due time, you'll think that you did. It's simple Government Mind-play; eventually, we'll all forget that it was three white firefighters that raised the flag; In the name of freedom, we will in fact lose freedom. In the name of freedom, we'll lose the right to freedom of thought. No longer will we have the right to think in certain ways, no longer will we have the right to say certain things. We'll no longer celebrate birthdays and talk about love, because they won't exist. We are simply here, and that's all that will matter. And those who rise up against freedom, the ones who realise it, will be crushed by the government, with all historical records showing that these people never existed; We are on the track, trust me. We are in a world where the American people are manipulated into thinking Iraq poses an imminent threat to America, where people lose sleep because the nightly news girl says that Iraq might have WMD's. And so it will go, the propaganda will flow, but the true facts, we will never know. They are lying to us left and right; I'm not the only one that sees it, Chuck sees it as well. The Bush Administration effectively exempted itself of the questioning by the media "What did you know about 9/11?", by pushing the Iraq conflict, changing the subject. Don't let them fool you; They knew it was coming, Just like they knew about Pearl Harbor. It's important for America not to be known as the aggressors; Why do you think they fabricated a connection between Sadamm and Osama bin Laden?
The War on Terror is the best thing that the Bush administration could have hoped for; How often does a president get unlimited use of his military, without disclosing what, where, how, when, why to the public? How often can a president bypass an entire domestic policy by simply telling the American people that we need to do this, otherwise another 9/11 will happen? What are people going to say to that, "Oh, another 9/11? Bring it." Of course, they'll say "another 9/11? *Sobs* Oh no!!! Do whatever you want." - And so it went. The American people are strong, and I hope they realize what's going on, and get rid of the United States Patriot Act of 2001, which was rushed in to congress two months after 9/11, when everyone in congress was still unstable, many parts barely being touched. Lets face it, it's a ****ing statue in a courthouse, not a billboard on a Highway.

~Incidents
# 13
zepp_rules
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zepp_rules
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08/28/2003 7:28 am
he could have made one out of clay for 50cents
To improve technique and of course trying to keep all as clean as possible. I know my own limits and speed limits and so on I never play anything I'm not capable of. That wouldn't make any sense. After three years of playing I tried to play everything as fast as possible and that sounded, I would say, like shit, and I didn't realize that if I'd play bit slower things than I was capable of playing then everything would sound much better.

--Aleksi Laiho - Advice to Play By
# 14
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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08/28/2003 12:21 pm
Incidents, I don’t agree with you at all.

Imagine the outcry of the general public had there been a giant copy of the Koran in the rotunda, especially after preachers have been preaching (in the pentagon no less) that it is an evil book.

Members of the US Gov. accepts a lot on money from different Christian churches for things like accommodation etc etc. non of it is official but it looks a lot like a back hander to my eyes !

I just can’t see a big statue of Lord Ganish or Krishna in an official government US building!


[Edited by Dr_simon on 08-28-2003 at 07:23 AM]
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# 15
Cody_King
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Cody_King
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08/28/2003 1:13 pm
with how america has grown to what it is today I can see why they took it down, Im really not religious but im pretty moral its common sence, hey dont kill people its not very nice. :) so either way im ok it wasnt bugging me.
# 16
Incidents Happen
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Incidents Happen
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08/28/2003 2:25 pm
Originally posted by Dr_simon
Incidents, I don’t agree with you at all.

Imagine the outcry of the general public had there been a giant copy of the Koran in the rotunda, especially after preachers have been preaching (in the pentagon no less) that it is an evil book.

Members of the US Gov. accepts a lot on money from different Christian churches for things like accommodation etc etc. non of it is official but it looks a lot like a back hander to my eyes !

I just can’t see a big statue of Lord Ganish or Krishna in an official government US building!

[Edited by Dr_simon on 08-28-2003 at 07:23 AM]


See, Dr., the full blast of non-existent religions won't happen until a law is passed to stop the acceptance of money from religious groups to political members. After that happens (and it will), it's only a matter of time.

And thats the thing: There will be no religious figures (hence a true government 'neutral status on religion) at all being represented, ever, so it will slowly kill religion. Look at it today, what has already happened; Prayer out of school, bibles out of school, all religious speech out of school, etc. Yes, that is seperation of church and state, and I understand our federal laws; By not allowing kids to speak of it in school is outrageous, however. I am not a religious person at all, but I believe humans need to have hope, for a better society, for an afterlife, for this and that; it's essential for the human race.

People in America are simply not very religious anymore; it's dying out. I don't think my family even has a bible, and if we do, I'm unaware of it's location. Some places will remain religious, like the Middle-East, where they are allowed to pray fifteen thousand times a day (jk:D;):) five times a day), but in a place where they teach you that praying is not acceptable, right out from childhood, does that encourage people to pray when they get home, or pray after work? It teaches kids right out from the start, that something is wrong with praying. After 9/11, a girl in my science class was praying. You know what they did to her? Sent her down to the office, lectured her, sent her back to class in tears. What the **** is that? Minding her own business, she wasn't giving a sermon, she was keeping to herself. I wouldn't be suprised if they confiscate religious material; I haven't seen anyone bring it to school, but I know for a fact that it's strongly discouraged. No children, although you aren't forcing anyone into your own beliefs, we want you to keep your beliefs at home, because it might upset people; that about sums up the politically correct bull**** that goes on in today's world.

"I'm glad to see it go"

Why is that? You feel better now that one less religious statue is here? They will all be gone, someday, and we'll wonder what the fuss was about; we'll lose sight of what Moses looked like, what Jesus looked like, what Mahammad (sp; whatever) looked like, because gradually, all pictures of religious icons will fade. I don't know about where you guys live, but churches are already starting to close down; the Catholic church is dying, every day. Two catholic churches in my city have closed down already (i live in the suburbs, but the city that it's near); a city of about 37,000 people, is now rejecting a faith. All across America, we're rejecting at least one faith. What I've found is that those who reject the Catholic religion, who used to be religious catholics, simply do not go to church; they don't find a new religion, they simply stay home on sundays. "After all, if the Catholics are that sick, who knows about those Methodists?"; I think that sums up, in my opinion, the thought process that these people have.


~Incidents

# 17
Dr_simon
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08/28/2003 3:50 pm
This is a non-sense

"See, Dr., the full blast of non-existent religions won't happen"

How can something non existent have a full blast ? It doesn’t exist !!!!
Think about what you are saying!

Also this legislation doesn’t stop people talking about religion; it just stops it being forced on people. Remember that thing about freedom of speech!

Why do you believe that this legislation will kill religion, do you need to be taught it in school to have faith? Im not religious but I think this idea is absurd! Maybe you think intellectual life stops after school, let me assure you it doesn’t!

"People in America are simply not very religious anymore;"

I also don’t believe this statement; the White hose if full of right wing Christian fundamentalists, and if that thought doesn’t make you fill you pants I don’t know what will!

"a girl in my science class was praying. You know what they did to her? Sent her down to the office, lectured her, sent her back to class in tears."

Maybe she wasn’t paying attention to what the teacher was telling her ! I suspect Devine intervention will not alter her grades when she writes, “sorry I cant answer this question I was talking to god” on her test.
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# 18
Incidents Happen
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08/28/2003 4:21 pm
Originally posted by Dr_simon

Also this legislation doesn’t stop people talking about religion; it just stops it being forced on people. Remember that thing about freedom of speech!

Why do you believe that this legislation will kill religion, do you need to be taught it in school to have faith? Im not religious but I think this idea is absurd! Maybe you think intellectual life stops after school, let me assure you it doesn’t!



Simon-
Teachers weren't teaching on 9/11, trust me, I'm a student. We all sat in class, watching the ****ing news. My god, I was about to start praying when she got sent down to the office; What does that tell the rest of the class?

Yeah, I understand that right now, we're filled with Right-Wing Bible pushers; and take into consideration that not everything happens in a period of 2 years. What I'm saying is that this is an example of a long and winding spiral of politically correct bull****, which will eventually lead to all of this. Keep in mind that, just because right now we have bible pushers, doesn't mean we always will.

You don't need to be taught in school to have faith, but right from the get-go, kindergarten through 12th grade, you are taught not to pray in school; not to pray during your free time in school; not to bring any religious beliefs into school; not to even mention god in school.

So you don't believe an empty space has no blast? There's nothing out of nothing? You don't believe that there can be a full blast of emptiness? After all, emptiness is the feeling of nothing, and nothing comes out of nothing, right? You don't believe that a full force of non-existence can possibly happen? How about 9/11, 2,500-3,000 people died,became non-existent, yet we felt it. It can happen to religion, too.

You're making the assumption that I believe all of these things will happen under our current laws; Let me assure you, they won't; The United States Patriot Act, and many acts like it, will proceed through congress, effectively killing our first amendment rights. Did you know that the government has the right to arrest you for disagreeing with Government policy? Yeah, That's the patriot act. How about the fact that they can arrest you without a judge or jury, or a lawyer, for as long as it takes. Hey, lets see how many amendments we can **** with! They can check out all of your private information, and otherwise classified information, without a warrant; They can check out the books you've been reading, the movies you've watched, the websites you went on, without a warrant. This is the start of things to come, if it continues for the next 20 years.

~Incidents
# 19
Dr_simon
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08/28/2003 4:36 pm
"Simon-
Teachers weren't teaching on 9/11, trust me, I'm a student. We all sat in class, watching the ****ing news. My god, I was about to start praying when she got sent down to the office; What does that tell the rest of the class?"

Sorry didn’t realize that was on 9/11, however I still don’t think it was empty space that killed all of those people! Once nothing is doing something, is it still nothing or a thing doing something (in other words not nothing)?

I also don’t think political correctness is bull. It is taken too far sometimes but it is like etiquette, it provides a platform from which people can communicate with out inadvertently offending some one they don’t know very well. However like Hyacinth Bucket, it is easy to make a mockery of a system that relies on curtsy and common sense!

Please don’t think Im defending the (un?)Patriot act, Im not and I really do hope the despicable Chaneys and Ashcrofts are stopped by any legal means !!

Check this out blood for oil, no blood for bricks

[Edited by Dr_simon on 08-28-2003 at 11:42 AM]
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# 20

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