Hey, Schmange... (and the other Mac users on here...)


Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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Posts: 2,907
06/24/2003 6:46 am
Apple's decided it's time to kick ass again...
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator

Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

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# 1
Dr_simon
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 07/06/02
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Dr_simon
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06/24/2003 6:51 pm
can do 64 bit....nnuuunnngggggggg !
My instructors page and www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS
# 2
Kevin Taylor
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Kevin Taylor
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06/24/2003 11:27 pm
Yummy :)
# 3
Adrian Johnson
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Adrian Johnson
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06/29/2003 10:24 am
yes, a VERY sexy machine...the shot of the G5 with the cover door open is now my favorite "geek porno" - i kept telling a friend to hold off on his dual G4 purchase...if he had waited a month, as i encouraged, he would've gotten at least 4x the horsepower for the same price! sometimes it pays to check macrumors.com ;)

BTW, what software do you guys use? i'm a Logic Audio Gold user, but am curious about people's experiences with Reason and other programs...
# 4
Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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06/29/2003 7:19 pm
I've got nothin' for recording software, but I rock InDesign and Quark like nobody's business.
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator

Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
# 5
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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06/30/2003 4:17 pm
i think they went alittle to far with the "fastest perosonal computer" claim..u know its always gonna switch back from the fastest pc back to the fastest mac ect..its competition although when they did the test..how they did it wasnt necessarily fair
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 6
Adrian Johnson
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Adrian Johnson
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06/30/2003 4:27 pm
it was good to see Spec tests used - that's probably a more accurate indicator than many other tests they've done in the past! when it comes to photoshop and audio apps this thing is hands down the best bang for the buck, but i'm a little bit skeptical on the 3D gaming...hopefully i'll pick up a new box soon and will be able to report back ;)
# 7
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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06/30/2003 7:28 pm
yes its good to use specs test but have u know Apple's tests, which were conducted by third-party testing firm Veritest, used the same GCC compiler for both machines, with the Dell boxes running the Linux operating system..higher benchmarks could be achieved using the Windows OS and an Intel-optimised compiler, rather than GCC.If they would have done that then the test for thes pcs would have been 30/40% higer...macs sucks when it comes to getting games..you jsut cant go out and find many in stores..gotta order them online then most of the games arent mac compatible..but then there good for graphics and stuff..
i like both but like pc more when it comes to games
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 8
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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06/30/2003 11:50 pm
games is a big issue..i couldnt stand having to wait..another thing that bothers me is the dam mouse with one click button..how the hell are you supposed to do all the crap with out having another button..yes u can always hold down the apple button and click, but some games require the use of both hands constantly
Pony shed the light to ur gf or is she into graphics or somthin?
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 9
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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07/01/2003 12:53 am
hahaha..poor u, well i can understand y she likes macs when it comes to art adn stuff but to me there to simple..its like ppl who dont know how to use comps use them but then thats not tru in allot of cases,when ppl say a pc is difficult.its like u can click on an apple and no were to go but the box with START on it leads them nowere?
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 10
Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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07/01/2003 6:03 am
Originally posted by ketsueki15
games is a big issue..i couldnt stand having to wait..another thing that bothers me is the dam mouse with one click button..how the hell are you supposed to do all the crap with out having another button..yes u can always hold down the apple button and click, but some games require the use of both hands constantly
Pony shed the light to ur gf or is she into graphics or somthin?

Control-click, jerkey.
Command-clicking on, say a menu bar in the Finder will allow you to navigate up directories faster than Windows could ever hope to though.

If you really need that second mouse button, two and three button scroll wheel mice are cheap, easy to find and require no extra software to work. Honestly though, I have a two button mouse at work and I really don't miss it here at home.

Learn the computer before you bash it.

And I'd really like to hear you explain how a Linux OS is slower than a bloated Microsoft OS. Especially since just about everything UNIX related is compiled specifically for the computer it's installed on.

The fact is Intel is milking every last dollar out of a 35 year old instruction set because they've got nothing to follow it up with and well, people keep buying it. Who cares if the newest P4's run the same core as the PentiumPro, we market it differently now!

One of my computer nerd friends (who lives and dies by the PC platform by the way) IMed me the other day and summed it up; Apple is shipping a 64 bit computer, PCs are 32 bit. G4's and G5's can process 128 bits of data at once, x86's can only process 64. Macs are a smoothly integrated system, PCs are a hodge-podge of manufacturuers and operating systems. Then to top it off, the G5 is just a hell of a lot more scalable than the Pentium; it's a fresher design and operates at much lower wattages so it's cooler, more efficient, and can be pushed much further in the long run.

Games will come to the Mac if Apple can ever increase it's market share. That's the hold up, not the computer or the operating system.
Raskolnikov
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Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
# 11
Adrian Johnson
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Adrian Johnson
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07/01/2003 7:41 am
LMFAO *picks self up from floor, still shaking with laughter* - yes, Mac OS 10 can "keep things simple" for the artistic types, but it's a full blown UNIX box - i can control every last aspect of my machine through the terminal. UNIX is your friend if you're into computers.

boy, i feel like a loser with the Apple sticker on my car. i mean, all the WORST musicians use Macs! for example, no one listens to NIN, Satriani, Moby, Vai, or Ramstein. sheesh, those guys will never be cool until they cripple themselves with windows!

for you Mac guys, i would DEFINITELY like some feedback on a music / openGL project of mine when i have a beta in August (both a stand alone app and an iTunes visualizer derived from the app): http://rustcycle.com/ai.html

when i'm recording, nothing can kill my machine. a program may crash once every few months, but the OS in unaffected. i've had my quicksilver G4 (recently upgraded to duals!) for 2 years, with ZERO OS crashes. i've restarted the machine 3 times for hardware upgrades, around 7 times for software upgrades - other than that it's been up 24/7 crunching numbers for music or 3D art - try THAT with windows.

a bit dated, but proof Apple is in league with both major artists and indies for the long haul (and a shameless plug) :D http://www.apple.com/education/hed/macsinaction/uccs/
# 12
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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07/01/2003 8:26 pm
i do know the machine dumb ass i have two comps...one mac for graphics and the pc for the games... and the claim of the Windows OS running faster than the linux.. i got that from the article at zdtv..im not gonna explain all the reasons just read the article urself and about the right click most games that i play usualy the violent shooter require u 2 use the right click often not everyone has the cooridnation or watever need to hold the dam button down each time u use it
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 13
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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07/01/2003 8:47 pm
its the company fault that there arnt many game in the first place..when windows and mac and watever first came..you would have to buy permission to make games for the mac while the pc was open free..
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 14
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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07/01/2003 9:00 pm
and about the apple shipping 64 bit and pcs shipping 32.. wrong.. the Intel's 64-bit Itanium is available for most PCs these day...money comes to an issue to..yes macs are good for editing but the software for both mac/pc is way to expensive..700$ for adobe photshop.. and some of the macs are overpriced for wat they offer at apple.com..and yes i know there are overpriced Pc's as it is..
they dont get that high when it comes to megahertz either No, bits, mhz and so on are NOT rated differently. 1 Hz = 1 cycle per second no matter if your talking sound or processors..yes it probly sounds liek im hating on macs even tho i own one..probly cuz im been around pcs more and my mac gives me more problems..could jsut be my luck
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 15
Adrian Johnson
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Adrian Johnson
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07/01/2003 11:27 pm
PonyOne, just giving you **** - don't take MY post too seriously ;)
# 16
Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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07/02/2003 1:17 am
Originally posted by ketsueki15
i do know the machine dumb ass i have two comps...one mac for graphics and the pc for the games... and the claim of the Windows OS running faster than the linux.. i got that from the article at zdtv..im not gonna explain all the reasons just read the article urself...

if that's the case, CNET is full of crap:

    Windows XP minimum system requirements:
  • PC with 300 megahertz or higher processor clock speed recommended; 233 MHz minimum required (single or dual processor system);* Intel Pentium/Celeron family, or AMD K6/Athlon/Duron family, or compatible processor recommended

  • 128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)

  • 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*


  • Linix minimum system requirements:
  • No real processor requirement; one varity or another WILL run on your computer.

  • 32 MB or RAM

  • 400 MB hard disk space


...and about the right click most games that i play usualy the violent shooter require u 2 use the right click often not everyone has the cooridnation or watever need to hold the dam button down each time u use it

I guess I'm just gifted.
and about the apple shipping 64 bit and pcs shipping 32.. wrong.. the Intel's 64-bit Itanium is available for most PCs these day...

I'm talking system busses and motherboards here, not processors. So the Itanium is a 64 bit processor. Yippy-friggin'-do, my G4 is a 128 bit processor. Seriously, name me one name brand "Consumer" PC that will accept 8 gigs of RAM.
money comes to an issue to..yes macs are good for editing but the software for both mac/pc is way to expensive..700$ for adobe photshop.. and some of the macs are overpriced for wat they offer at apple.com..and yes i know there are overpriced Pc's as it is..

You pay for what you get. Apple overcharges a bit, but not as much as it seems when you consider that they use much higher quality components than most PC manufacturers. Tiger and Compaq computers are cheap because they don't care about quality. On top of that, Apple makes it's computers and their operating system, so both work together much more smoothly.

Of course, you can always build your own, but if you don't match all the components up well, you could be making a ton of trouble for yourself. A friend of mine once had a hell of a time finding a graphics card that would work with his motherboard. But that's what happens when you have thousands of manufacturers of every conceivable part on the computer; sometimes they aren't going to play nice together.
they dont get that high when it comes to megahertz either No, bits, mhz and so on are NOT rated differently. 1 Hz = 1 cycle per second no matter if your talking sound or processors..yes it probly sounds liek im hating on macs even tho i own one..probly cuz im been around pcs more and my mac gives me more problems..could jsut be my luck

You can't really compare PPC and x86 processors on a mhz/mhz basis. Yes, a clock cycle is a clock cycle and a hertz is a hertz. But the thing is that x86 and PPC processors use two totally different instruction sets and two totally different core designs. On paper, the PPC instruction set is 25% more efficient than the x86 instruction set; so in other words you give both a PPC and an x86 a job to do, call it "Task A," the x86 will use 100 operations to accomplish it, the PPC will use 75. That means on paper, the PPC can operate at 3/4 the clock speed of the x86 and perform equally well. The minute you start building processors though, the difference is exadurated; Intel has a "add it on now, make it work later" policy. For instance, initially, the MMX unit was attached to the same registers in the processor as the Integer Unit. That meant that the two parts could not function at the same time. On top of that; that costs you performance. Worse yet, the processor had to stop everything it was doing to switch between the two portions of the processor causing an even bigger performance hit. WORSE STILL, Intel never released the new MMX instructions to programmers, so it was up to programmers to figure out what it was. As I understand it, they finally fixed it with the P4, but that's just one small example of how Intel designs chips; they think about marketing THEN performance. In comparison, when Motorola developed AlitVec (which operates on the same principals of MMX), Motorola took the time to design the chip well, gave the AltiVec unit a nice beefy 128 bit set of registers so that all three units of the processor could work in unison and released not only the instructions, but also an emulator so that programmers could hit the grown running by the time the G4 came out. There are some operations where the AltiVec equipped PPC has a 40:1 performance advantage over any x86 processor. As a consequence, 500mhz G4s performed ON PAR with the first 1ghz Pentiums. And that's according to several PC magazines of the day. My computer nerd friend who I mentioned earlier estimates that a 2.8ghz P4 performs about on par with a theoretical 2ghz G4.

I'd keep going but I think this post is too long already.
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator

Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
# 17
ketsueki15
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ketsueki15
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07/03/2003 4:15 am
i think u miss understood when i said 64 bit..quote from apple .com "The new Power Mac G5 can offer up to 8GB of RAM thanks to the ((**64-bit**)) G5.. i wasnt talkin about the bus..the ram doublea pc but for my need i wouldnt need 8..better alone 4..most programs today dont require much use of 4-8gigs of memory..still nice to have
In memory of Randy Rhoads
# 18
Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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07/03/2003 11:06 pm
I think they're talking about the computer when they say "the G5"), for the processor itself has 64 bit FPU and Integer Units, 128 bit AltiVec, and supports 128 bits though the system bus; that makes it a 128 bit processor. If they are talking about the processor, then they're emphasizing the FPU and Interger units (much like when the G4 came out and all we heard about was "Velocity Engine" (aka AltiVec)).

What I like seeing about 8 gigs of RAM on a computer is that a). somebody's gonna find a use for it and sooner than any of us think, Photoshop already comes damn close and b). it might encourage the price of RAM to go down a bit.

Mostly though, it allows a "power user" to really trick out the computer while not forcing the soccer moms out there to pay even more for the computer.
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator

Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
# 19

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