Hello - I am Looking for a system


ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/05/2023 6:21 pm

Hi,


I have been subscribing to Guitartricks for 5 years now but (same old story) never found enough time to seriously use it. I want to change that now. But one thing I miss and didn't really find here, is a guide on what to learn in which sequence, a system. Can anyone help me with that? I guess it depends on what you want to do and what your starting point is, so let me tell you about that.


- I have been playing guitar casually for about 12 years and also played a few of decades ago in my youth for a few years, never practicing much or methodically, especially the last few years. Which I want to do now. Basic chords and a bit more advanced chords, barre chords and some finger picking with attention to the base line, feel quite natural. I have practiced the minor pentatonic scale and know the patterns to some degree. I have followed some of the courses here on blues and bending and could do that more, learn some riffs and such. However, having a general idea about what is what, feeling at home in a key, knowing which chords and notes to use there and generally knowing what a certain chord/harmony is needed to achieve what effect, such things must be the most important and without having this insight, it feels a little like running around in the dark and that is not motivating for learning isolated parts of the whole. 


- I like to write songs and sing them, usually using acoustic guitar accompaniment. What works well is generating chords and then writing a text. The other way, having the lyrics and a melody and then creating chords, is more difficult. I probably lack music theory…


- I want to focus on Blues for a while, because I like it and find it to be the mother of many other genres. Rock would also be interesting in that respect. In these studies I imagine using mainly electric guitar.


- On the electric guitar I would like to be able to play a bit of soloing, not necessarily shredding it completely, just a little mood creation. I don't see myself becoming a professional lead guitarist. Also, some understanding/mastering of chords for the electric guitar, like power-chords, is on my to-learn list.


- I want to understand music theory as much as necessary to match what I am able to do practically. I imagine first learning the important things, while practicing physically, building up practical playing and theory together.


- Learning notes: I am not sure if that is feasible or if tabs would be more beneficial?


- Eventually, if time and talent permits, I would be interested in playing Jazz. Which I now see as a really big challenge, for which you not only need great technical skills but also a profound knowledge of harmony.


Anyone know what I mean?


Cheers to all


Henrik


# 1
Tinpan
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Joined: 03/31/20
Posts: 465
Tinpan
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Posts: 465
01/05/2023 7:14 pm

Wow thank you for writing that. You have perfectly articulated me!! 


Looking forward to some insights as I also find that there is a lot of info here but once you've finished the intro courses then it lacks a bit of structure for intermediates.


# 2
JeffS65
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Joined: 10/07/08
Posts: 1,602
JeffS65
Registered User
Joined: 10/07/08
Posts: 1,602
01/05/2023 8:13 pm
#1 Originally Posted by: ran2far

Hi,


I have been subscribing to Guitartricks for 5 years now but (same old story) never found enough time to seriously use it. I want to change that now. But one thing I miss and didn't really find here, is a guide on what to learn in which sequence, a system. Can anyone help me with that? I guess it depends on what you want to do and what your starting point is, so let me tell you about that.


- I have been playing guitar casually for about 12 years and also played a few of decades ago in my youth for a few years, never practicing much or methodically, especially the last few years. Which I want to do now. Basic chords and a bit more advanced chords, barre chords and some finger picking with attention to the base line, feel quite natural. I have practiced the minor pentatonic scale and know the patterns to some degree. I have followed some of the courses here on blues and bending and could do that more, learn some riffs and such. However, having a general idea about what is what, feeling at home in a key, knowing which chords and notes to use there and generally knowing what a certain chord/harmony is needed to achieve what effect, such things must be the most important and without having this insight, it feels a little like running around in the dark and that is not motivating for learning isolated parts of the whole. 


- I like to write songs and sing them, usually using acoustic guitar accompaniment. What works well is generating chords and then writing a text. The other way, having the lyrics and a melody and then creating chords, is more difficult. I probably lack music theory…


- I want to focus on Blues for a while, because I like it and find it to be the mother of many other genres. Rock would also be interesting in that respect. In these studies I imagine using mainly electric guitar.


- On the electric guitar I would like to be able to play a bit of soloing, not necessarily shredding it completely, just a little mood creation. I don't see myself becoming a professional lead guitarist. Also, some understanding/mastering of chords for the electric guitar, like power-chords, is on my to-learn list.


- I want to understand music theory as much as necessary to match what I am able to do practically. I imagine first learning the important things, while practicing physically, building up practical playing and theory together.


- Learning notes: I am not sure if that is feasible or if tabs would be more beneficial?


- Eventually, if time and talent permits, I would be interested in playing Jazz. Which I now see as a really big challenge, for which you not only need great technical skills but also a profound knowledge of harmony.


Anyone know what I mean?


Cheers to all


Henrik

Sounds like you have some ability and dexterity to play but as you'd said; 'a guide on what to learn in which sequence, a system'. I mean, that is how Guitar Tricks is structured. I don't mean that to sound too direct but it seems when people have gained enough skill and a little bit of knowledge, such ability almost opens too many doors to advance to that next level. In a way, a really good structure can also get in the way. If I'm honest, that might be the deal with where you're at.


What to do?


My thought is to learn songs. Lots of songs. On top of that; focus on learning the major scale, and pentatonic scale. You may already know some of this stuff. Also, it might not hurt to wrap your head around when to play the pentatonic scale in a major mode versus a minor mode. There is an ENORMOUS world of music theory to be learned but to make the jump from some noodling to actually playing stuff, these are some powerful ways to make that jump.


Why?


90% of rock and blues melodies and leads comes from the major scale or pentatonic scale (major or minor application). Though very useful, learning what an Aeolion or Mixolydian mode is and why is a bigger jump than needed. Keep that in your pocket for the future though. Learn and learn how to apply the meat and potatos. It'll take you way far. Also, a side serving of learning intervals will help. Intervals sound 'mysic-y' but it's really just counting out the 'note spaces' in a scale. If you've ever sung 'doe-rae-mi-fa-so-la-ti-doe', you've sung the note intervals in a scale.


Songs?


Yep. Lots of songs. Lots of different types of songs. With the basis above, when you learn a song, a lot of pieces come together. One thing I've said a million times; learn some Lynyrd Skynyrd. Southern rock in general tends to be a good lesson in the meat and potatos. You'll see in action how it comes together. That's the point of learning songs, bringing things together. Before we could learn online, back in my day, it was all about songs. Think of all the great guitar players talking about who inspired them. It wasn't inspiration but actual application of learning their stuff.


Those are my thoughts.


# 3
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/05/2023 9:29 pm
#2 Originally Posted by: Tinpan

Wow thank you for writing that. You have perfectly articulated me!! 


Looking forward to some insights as I also find that there is a lot of info here but once you've finished the intro courses then it lacks a bit of structure for intermediates.

šŸ‘šŸ˜


# 4
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/05/2023 9:52 pm
#3 Originally Posted by: JeffS65

Sounds like you have some ability and dexterity to play but as you'd said; 'a guide on what to learn in which sequence, a system'. I mean, that is how Guitar Tricks is structured. I don't mean that to sound too direct but it seems when people have gained enough skill and a little bit of knowledge, such ability almost opens too many doors to advance to that next level. In a way, a really good structure can also get in the way. If I'm honest, that might be the deal with where you're at.


What to do?


My thought is to learn songs. Lots of songs. On top of that; focus on learning the major scale, and pentatonic scale. You may already know some of this stuff. Also, it might not hurt to wrap your head around when to play the pentatonic scale in a major mode versus a minor mode. There is an ENORMOUS world of music theory to be learned but to make the jump from some noodling to actually playing stuff, these are some powerful ways to make that jump.


Why?


90% of rock and blues melodies and leads comes from the major scale or pentatonic scale (major or minor application). Though very useful, learning what an Aeolion or Mixolydian mode is and why is a bigger jump than needed. Keep that in your pocket for the future though. Learn and learn how to apply the meat and potatos. It'll take you way far. Also, a side serving of learning intervals will help. Intervals sound 'mysic-y' but it's really just counting out the 'note spaces' in a scale. If you've ever sung 'doe-rae-mi-fa-so-la-ti-doe', you've sung the note intervals in a scale.


Songs?


Yep. Lots of songs. Lots of different types of songs. With the basis above, when you learn a song, a lot of pieces come together. One thing I've said a million times; learn some Lynyrd Skynyrd. Southern rock in general tends to be a good lesson in the meat and potatos. You'll see in action how it comes together. That's the point of learning songs, bringing things together. Before we could learn online, back in my day, it was all about songs. Think of all the great guitar players talking about who inspired them. It wasn't inspiration but actual application of learning their stuff.


Those are my thoughts.

Hey Jeff65, thanks for taking the time and for your thoughts. Many true words. You say Guitar Tricks is structured. Perhaps it is, perhaps I just don't see it. I meant that it would be great to order the lessons into sections, like in order to be able to do this, first do this but before that, this and so on, except the other way round šŸ¤Ŗ In other words, bulding abilities like a house, first the foundation, then then walls and finally the roof. Perhaps a stucture could get in the way but you could alway stray away from it if it were too tight, all the lessons are accessible here at any time. 


But playing songs, yes, absolutely. And I do. 


I guess it is also a personality thing, if you are happy to work a little here and little there and have confidence that eventually you will see the bigger picture. Or if you try to make sure you are on a path where you can be sure you are building your skill in an optimal way, that will include everyting you need to become a full musician, who is well versed in all important aspects of being a musician, well situated in the bigger picture. 


# 5
Rumble Walrus
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Joined: 12/30/20
Posts: 501
Rumble Walrus
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Joined: 12/30/20
Posts: 501
01/05/2023 10:53 pm

Hi ran2far,


Fast observation followed by longer on if you care to listen to my long winded response.



  1.  Long term goal:  play jazz guitar

  2. Possible short term goals:  Pick 3 jazz tunes, id the key, chord progressions, mode (possibly).  Nail the rhythm playing on all 3 tunes.

  3. Christopher has a strong interest in Jazz and I'm betting he could layout a curriculum of existing content here on GT.


I have a similar problem confronted with a buffet - I tend to stuff my face with whatever strikes me at that moment with no thought as to a meal plan.  That gives me passing satisfaction but doesn't contribute to good nutrition ;)


I deleted the long winded response in favor of a shorter long winded response.


edited
# 6
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/05/2023 11:32 pm
#6 Originally Posted by: Rumble Walrus

Hi ran2far,


Fast observation followed by longer on if you care to listen to my long winded response.



  1.  Long term goal:  play jazz guitar

  2. Possible short term goals:  Pick 3 jazz tunes, id the key, chord progressions, mode (possibly).  Nail the rhythm playing on all 3 tunes.

  3. Christopher has a strong interest in Jazz and I'm betting he could layout a curriculum of existing content here on GT.


I have a similar problem confronted with a buffet - I tend to stuff my face with whatever strikes me at that moment with no thought as to a meal plan.  That gives me passing satisfaction but doesn't contribute to good nutrition ;)


I deleted the long winded response in favor of a shorter long winded response.

Thanks Rumble Walrus,


now I am really curious what the long answer was :-)


Yeah, the buffet is a good image. Also, here you can eat too much and that aint healthy either.


Your suggestion for a short term goal sound more like a checking of skills that I learned but I have yet to learn those things and get well versed...


Do you mean that Christopher might be persuaded into making a training plan based on the material on GT? Might be worth a try. If I paid him for a private lesson or two, who knows.


Cheers to you.


edited
# 7
JeffS65
Registered User
Joined: 10/07/08
Posts: 1,602
JeffS65
Registered User
Joined: 10/07/08
Posts: 1,602
01/06/2023 2:15 pm
#5 Originally Posted by: ran2far

Hey Jeff65, thanks for taking the time and for your thoughts. Many true words. You say Guitar Tricks is structured. Perhaps it is, perhaps I just don't see it. I meant that it would be great to order the lessons into sections, like in order to be able to do this, first do this but before that, this and so on, except the other way round šŸ¤Ŗ In other words, bulding abilities like a house, first the foundation, then then walls and finally the roof. Perhaps a stucture could get in the way but you could alway stray away from it if it were too tight, all the lessons are accessible here at any time. 


But playing songs, yes, absolutely. And I do. 


I guess it is also a personality thing, if you are happy to work a little here and little there and have confidence that eventually you will see the bigger picture. Or if you try to make sure you are on a path where you can be sure you are building your skill in an optimal way, that will include everyting you need to become a full musician, who is well versed in all important aspects of being a musician, well situated in the bigger picture. 

You know, just to make sure you've been to this page (don't let the beginner part fool you, it's a map of all the paths):


https://www.guitartricks.com/beginner


It's does lay out the pathways for the system and step by step stuff. I assumed you had already been to this page as the map of various pathways but, if not, here it is. If so, then it was still worth mentioning.


# 8
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 8,328
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 8,328
01/06/2023 4:21 pm

GT content is organized into 3 main categories. 


1. Structured curriculum like the courses: fundamentals, acoustic, blues, country, rock style courses.


https://www.guitartricks.com/beginner.php


Or the collections.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collections.php


2. Songs.


https://www.guitartricks.com/songs/


And you can sort & filter by styles, so you can see all the blues songs, for example.


https://www.guitartricks.com/songs/blues


3. Instructor directories.


https://www.guitartricks.com/instructors.php


The courses are streamlined, but if you want to go deeper into any given technique or idea there is material that isn't part of a course. And all of those can be found in categories on the instructor directories. For example, I have a whole section on learning blues licks. Go to my directory & scroll down to the Learning Blues Licks section.  Or whole sections on jazz, classical, rock guitar techniques, etc. 


https://www.guitartricks.com/instructors/155014


I absolutely can & will give you a list of tutorials to work on if you can be very specific about your goals.  With that in mind, I'll address the specifics of your post.


"I have practiced the minor pentatonic scale and know the patterns to some degree."


If you want to get serious about pentatonic patterns I have a whole series of tutorials on the theory.


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/296


And how to apply it in different ways.


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/185


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/722


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/737/


"However, having a general idea about what is what, feeling at home in a key, knowing which chords and notes to use there and generally knowing what a certain chord/harmony is needed to achieve what effect, such things must be the most important and without having this insight, it feels a little like running around in the dark and that is not motivating for learning isolated parts of the whole."


I have 2 collections that can help all of that.


This one covers the theory & application of improvisation.  I start with the basics of identifying the key signature, targeting chord tones & building melodic phrases.   Each tutorial get progressively more complex but always applying the fundamental principles.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/learning-to-improvise


And this one covers the fundamental principles of music theory.  


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/music-theory


This collection covers chord theory.   How to visualize & play any and all major & minor triads across the entire fretboard.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/triads-and-inversions


"The other way, having the lyrics and a melody and then creating chords, is more difficult. I probably lack music theory…"


Yes, theory will help you understand how chords & scales are 2 different ways of looking at the same material.  And how a melody contains the info you need to know which chords are options for which notes.  My beginner classical tutorials cover that as well because so much classical music requires you to play the melody & chords at the same time.


"I want to focus on Blues for a while, because I like it and find it to be the mother of many other genres. Rock would also be interesting in that respect. In these studies I imagine using mainly electric guitar."


Either the blues or rock course will be beneficial.  Since you've paid for a subscription, then do them both!  But since they are time consuming it's a matter of priorities & goals that only you can assess.


"On the electric guitar I would like to be able to play a bit of soloing, not necessarily shredding it completely, just a little mood creation."


My improvisation collection will help with that.  But you also have to build a repertoire of licks to play.  My blues licks tutorials & collection will help with that.  I also encourage you to learn licks by artist you enjoy in order to stay motivated & inspired by the process.


"Learning notes: I am not sure if that is feasible or if tabs would be more beneficial?"


Learning the notes has no downside.  It will absolutely make you more musically competent.  Tab is also benefical.  Use them both.


"Eventually, if time and talent permits, I would be interested in playing Jazz. Which I now see as a really big challenge, for which you not only need great technical skills but also a profound knowledge of harmony."


That's a huge undertaking.  :)  I have this list of tutorials that form a basic GT curriculum.


https://www.guitartricks.com/forum/t/36491


Hope that helps!  Best of success!


edited
Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 9
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/06/2023 7:58 pm
#8 Originally Posted by: JeffS65

You know, just to make sure you've been to this page (don't let the beginner part fool you, it's a map of all the paths):


https://www.guitartricks.com/beginner


It's does lay out the pathways for the system and step by step stuff. I assumed you had already been to this page as the map of various pathways but, if not, here it is. If so, then it was still worth mentioning.

Thanks for that! šŸ˜€


# 10
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
ran2far
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Joined: 12/16/17
Posts: 7
01/06/2023 9:28 pm
#9 Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel

GT content is organized into 3 main categories. 


1. Structured curriculum like the courses: fundamentals, acoustic, blues, country, rock style courses.


https://www.guitartricks.com/beginner.php


Or the collections.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collections.php


2. Songs.


https://www.guitartricks.com/songs/


And you can sort & filter by styles, so you can see all the blues songs, for example.


https://www.guitartricks.com/songs/blues


3. Instructor directories.


https://www.guitartricks.com/instructors.php


The courses are streamlined, but if you want to go deeper into any given technique or idea there is material that isn't part of a course. And all of those can be found in categories on the instructor directories. For example, I have a whole section on learning blues licks. Go to my directory & scroll down to the Learning Blues Licks section.  Or whole sections on jazz, classical, rock guitar techniques, etc. 


https://www.guitartricks.com/instructors/155014


I absolutely can & will give you a list of tutorials to work on if you can be very specific about your goals.  With that in mind, I'll address the specifics of your post.


"I have practiced the minor pentatonic scale and know the patterns to some degree."


If you want to get serious about pentatonic patterns I have a whole series of tutorials on the theory.


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/296


And how to apply it in different ways.


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/185


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/722


https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial/737/


"However, having a general idea about what is what, feeling at home in a key, knowing which chords and notes to use there and generally knowing what a certain chord/harmony is needed to achieve what effect, such things must be the most important and without having this insight, it feels a little like running around in the dark and that is not motivating for learning isolated parts of the whole."


I have 2 collections that can help all of that.


This one covers the theory & application of improvisation.  I start with the basics of identifying the key signature, targeting chord tones & building melodic phrases.   Each tutorial get progressively more complex but always applying the fundamental principles.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/learning-to-improvise


And this one covers the fundamental principles of music theory.  


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/music-theory


This collection covers chord theory.   How to visualize & play any and all major & minor triads across the entire fretboard.


https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/triads-and-inversions


"The other way, having the lyrics and a melody and then creating chords, is more difficult. I probably lack music theory…"


Yes, theory will help you understand how chords & scales are 2 different ways of looking at the same material.  And how a melody contains the info you need to know which chords are options for which notes.  My beginner classical tutorials cover that as well because so much classical music requires you to play the melody & chords at the same time.


"I want to focus on Blues for a while, because I like it and find it to be the mother of many other genres. Rock would also be interesting in that respect. In these studies I imagine using mainly electric guitar."


Either the blues or rock course will be beneficial.  Since you've paid for a subscription, then do them both!  But since they are time consuming it's a matter of priorities & goals that only you can assess.


"On the electric guitar I would like to be able to play a bit of soloing, not necessarily shredding it completely, just a little mood creation."


My improvisation collection will help with that.  But you also have to build a repertoire of licks to play.  My blues licks tutorials & collection will help with that.  I also encourage you to learn licks by artist you enjoy in order to stay motivated & inspired by the process.


"Learning notes: I am not sure if that is feasible or if tabs would be more beneficial?"


Learning the notes has no downside.  It will absolutely make you more musically competent.  Tab is also benefical.  Use them both.


"Eventually, if time and talent permits, I would be interested in playing Jazz. Which I now see as a really big challenge, for which you not only need great technical skills but also a profound knowledge of harmony."


That's a huge undertaking.  :)  I have this list of tutorials that form a basic GT curriculum.


https://www.guitartricks.com/forum/t/36491


Hope that helps!  Best of success!

Wow Christoph! Thank you heaps for taking the time to answer in such detail, I really appreciate it! 


And the extra jazz gemstone at the end, wouldn't have known where to find it, probably inside information ;-) Cheers! But I will wait a while with that, first some underlying skills.


Strangely, none of the links work when clicking on them. Copy/pasting them: all good. Mysterious.


Well, I must get started with the work. May see you in a private lesson later in the year. Have to figure out how to do that. I see you can book a live online lesson but there is no mention about choice of instructor. 


Happy new year!


Henrik


# 11
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 8,328
ChristopherSchlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 08/09/05
Posts: 8,328
01/07/2023 5:12 pm
#11 Originally Posted by: ran2far

Wow Christoph! Thank you heaps for taking the time to answer in such detail, I really appreciate it! 


And the extra jazz gemstone at the end, wouldn't have known where to find it, probably inside information ;-) Cheers! But I will wait a while with that, first some underlying skills.


Strangely, none of the links work when clicking on them. Copy/pasting them: all good. Mysterious.


Well, I must get started with the work. May see you in a private lesson later in the year. Have to figure out how to do that. I see you can book a live online lesson but there is no mention about choice of instructor. 


Happy new year!


Henrik

You're welcome.  I re-tested those links & they all work for me.  You can book a one-on-one lesson using the link on the lower left side of the home landing page: "Book A Live Online Lesson".  At this time I am not one of the instructors doing those.


https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=13692607


Please let me know when or if you have any other questions!  Hope that helps!


Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor

Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 12

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