Originally Posted by: SRVFan2000

It is in Drop D tuning. He also uses a Capo at the 3rd fret. It says it is in Fm.[/quote]

I'm not familar with the song but that tuning & key would work together pretty well to make a lot of open strings available.

Normally the 3rd fret of the E string is a G note. But you are tuning the E to D. So that makes the 3rd fret of the low E string an F note. And the rest of the strings are convenient to the key as well.

e|--3-(g)----|

b|--3-(d)----|

g|--3-(b-flat)|

d|--3-(f)----|

a|--3-(c)----|

d|--3-(f)----|

All those bass notes are Fs & C; root & 5th in F. The other notes are consistent with a F dorian sound. Which is pretty common for the bluesy-roots sound I've heard in Rival Sons songs.

f (1) - g (2) - a-flat (m3) - b-flat (4) - c (5) - d (M6) - e-flat (m7)

Originally Posted by: SRVFan2000I believe his notation (and noted key) does NOT factor in the capo being at the 3rd fret (common practice in tab) yet if I play over the main riff at Fm (penta pattern) starting at the 13th fret, it works great.[/quote]

I'd have to see the notation to help with this. But there's a more general point here that sometimes gets lost in dealing with a capo.

A capo doesn't change the guitar or key you are in. It only makes certain notes easier to play by making the notes below it unavailable. You can still play those notes without the capo & make the same pitches.

The note at the 3rd fret of the detuned E string is an F regardless of whether or not you have a capo. The notes of an F minor pentatonic scale are going to work on a non-capoed guitar, or any other instrument because those are the absolute notes being used in the song.

The capo just makes it easier to play certain patterns in certain situations. Usually open strings with higher fretted strings. But that doesn't change the fact that you can still play the notes anywhere you can find them, with or without a capo.

Originally Posted by: SRVFan2000There are only a small handful of notes in the tune so it doesn't really even fit a key perfectly- something I have leaned lately. Key is just a convenient word- for many tunes, it is much more about the actual notes used and chord changes. By contrast in Blues- key means a lot and I can use all the notes.

Good observation! In fact, the vast majority of music doesn't stay solely in one key. The key signature is like the default setting: these are the notes we start with. But if you only stay in one scale the music can get bland. So using notes outside of the key is where a lot of music gets it interesting, spicy bits! Most music uses accidentals.

[quote=SRVFan2000]

So my question is, would it still be in Fm if the capo is at the 3rd fret?

[p]The capo is irrelevant to the key. You can play in any key you want above the capo. The capo just makes certain frets unavailable. Or in this case, certain notes easier to fret.

[quote=SRVFan2000]

Probably not but then why does it work at 13th fret.

[p]I'm assuming you are referring to normal tuning. This is the F minor pentatonic box at that fret.

|---------------------------------------------13-16---------|

|------------------------------------13-16------------------|

|----------------------------13-15--------------------------|

|--------------------13-15----------------------------------|

|-----------13-15-------------------------------------------|

|--13-16----------------------------------------------------|

Put a capo on the 3rd fret. Or the 4th, 5th or 6th. Or take the capo off. It doesn't affect any of the notes of the above box. It's still F minor pentatonic. That's what I mean when I say the capo is irrelevant to that pattern. Those notes are what they are regardless of what happens in the lower frets.

Now it is relevant if you want to play the F minor pentatonic down here.

|-----------------------------1-4------|

|------------------------1-4-----------|

|------------------1-3-----------------|

|-------------1-3----------------------|

|--------1-3---------------------------|

|--1-4---------------------------------|

Because the capo makes some of those frets unavailable for playing.

Make sense?

You could play the F minor pentatonic box like this if you have the E string tuned to D, because you adjust the pattern 2 frets to make up for the de-tuning from E to D.

|---------------------------------------------13-16---------|

|------------------------------------13-16------------------|

|----------------------------13-15--------------------------|

|--------------------13-15----------------------------------|

|-----------13-15-------------------------------------------|

|--15-18----------------------------------------------------|

Hope that helps!