Direct Message System IN BETA!


Guitar Tricks Admin
Full Access
Joined: 09/28/05
Posts: 3,259

Hi everyone.

You asked for it and we just put it on the site. There is now a direct messaging system. You may now see a button to DIRECT MESSAGE other forum users right beneath their name on a forum post. You will also see a messaging button when you view a user's forum profile.

Please keep in mind that the messaging system is in BETA, and not finalized so there will be changes and there are things that we are planning to add in the future. Users are only able to directly message other Full Access members.

We're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and gathering your feedback.

-Billy

EDIT: I just moved this thread to the Guitar Tricks Site forum for more feedback.


If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us.
# 1
manXcat
Full Access
Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,426

Thank you for that Billy. Very much desired and muchly appreciated.

I'll be testing it today.

[br]Regards,

ManXcat


# 2
fuzzb0x
Registered User
Joined: 04/02/13
Posts: 555

Will we receive a notification to let us know we have a new message or do we need to click on the tab to check?


# 3
manXcat
Full Access
Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,426

Hi Billy

GT DM beta implementation feedback.

First, the good.

My thanks for initiating a DM service within the website's forum software.

Now the not so good.

In its current beta state, referring to it as rudimentary would be a complimentiary critique.

[u]Requires[/u] the following features to be functionally worthwhile. Items 1, 2(ii) & 4 are imperative minimums.

1. User notification flag of a message waiting in inbox annunciating on the main screen if logged in. That's basic and intrinsic of every forum application I have used since fidonet GUI days (think early '90s).

2. Message (i) sent/(ii) read flags

3. Save copy of sent message -which should be automatic/default unless set otherwise by the user

4. End user delete message capability

5. Message archival capability - can be total number of messages restricted or space limited.

Cheers,

manXcat


# 4
spb1122
Full Access
Joined: 11/24/19
Posts: 41

In 11 words or less, I have to agree with manXcat.

Originally Posted by: manXcat

Hi Billy

GT DM beta implementation feedback.

First, the good.

My thanks for initiating a DM service within the website's forum software.

Now the not so good.

In its current beta state, referring to it as rudimentary would be a complimentiary critique.

[u]Requires[/u] the following features to be functionally worthwhile. Items 1, 2(ii) & 4 are imperative minimums.

1. User notification flag of a message waiting in inbox annunciating on the main screen if logged in. That's basic and intrinsic of every forum application I have used since fidonet GUI days (think early '90s).

2. Message (i) sent/(ii) read flags

3. Save copy of sent message -which should be automatic/default unless set otherwise by the user

4. End user delete message capability

5. Message archival capability - can be total number of messages restricted or space limited.

Cheers,

manXcat


# 5
William MG
Full Access
Joined: 03/08/19
Posts: 1,399

I don't know why this is so hard.

Personally I ignore it. A waste. A failure. An appeasement to the vocal. And it is an appeasement - something to shut them up in my opinion.

When I need something technical done I give specific instructions: here is what I want. Can you do it? How much will it cost? When can you start, when will you finish?

My advice to GT: the teaching brought me. Messaging is an afterthought. You do a good job on teaching. If you can't do a good job on messaging....don't.


# 6
john of MT
Full Access
Joined: 10/08/09
Posts: 1,385
Originally Posted by: William MG

I don't know why this is so hard.

Personally I ignore it. A waste. A failure. An appeasement to the vocal. And it is an appeasement - something to shut them up in my opinion.

When I need something technical done I give specific instructions: here is what I want. Can you do it? How much will it cost? When can you start, when will you finish?

My advice to GT: the teaching brought me. Messaging is an afterthought. You do a good job on teaching. If you can't do a good job on messaging....don't.

What came before, in the 2010's, worked well. GT could fall back to that.


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 7
manXcat
Full Access
Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,426
Originally Posted by: William MG

I don't know why this is so hard.

Personally I ignore it. A waste. A failure. An appeasement to the vocal. And it is an appeasement - something to shut them up in my opinion.

When I need something technical done I give specific instructions: here is what I want. Can you do it? How much will it cost? When can you start, when will you finish?

My advice to GT: the teaching brought me. Messaging is an afterthought. You do a good job on teaching. If you can't do a good job on messaging....don't.

Love GT must be said, and I'm another sub here perennially until my last guitar playing breath for the meat 'n taters.

However, William MGs is valid comment with which I concur.

That said, case in point my preceding post, check your PMs Will.


# 8
manXcat
Full Access
Joined: 02/17/18
Posts: 1,426
Originally Posted by: john of MT

What came before, in the 2010's, worked well. GT could fall back to that.

Being a pragmatic and 'do it now with what's available' type rather than wait for the hypothetically in some unspecified future perfect never, assuming the new website (& forum?) is backwardly compatible and so doable, sight unseen and on his experienced using it recommendation, I'd second john of MTs suggestion.


# 9
Guitar Tricks Admin
Full Access
Joined: 09/28/05
Posts: 3,259
Originally Posted by: manXcat

Hi Billy

GT DM beta implementation feedback.

First, the good.

My thanks for initiating a DM service within the website's forum software.

Now the not so good.

In its current beta state, referring to it as rudimentary would be a complimentiary critique.

[u]Requires[/u] the following features to be functionally worthwhile. Items 1, 2(ii) & 4 are imperative minimums.

1. User notification flag of a message waiting in inbox annunciating on the main screen if logged in. That's basic and intrinsic of every forum application I have used since fidonet GUI days (think early '90s).

2. Message (i) sent/(ii) read flags

3. Save copy of sent message -which should be automatic/default unless set otherwise by the user

4. End user delete message capability

5. Message archival capability - can be total number of messages restricted or space limited.

Cheers,

manXcat

Thanks for the feedback manXcat! Again, the system is in beta, and to be honest, we do not currently see the feature being used at the scale we had hoped. It's just not something that we're going to invest time into if there is a very very tiny amount of messages actually being sent each month.

Regardless, thank you for the solid feedback. This is the type of comment we'd like to see (you don't have to jab us lol)!

-Billy


If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us.
# 10
john of MT
Full Access
Joined: 10/08/09
Posts: 1,385

As I remember, the previous direct messaging was discontinued without warning, notification or expressed regrets. It would be helpful if we members understood the reason for discontinuing the feature and why it's a costly expediture of resources to 'reinstall.'


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 11
W O L V E R I N E
Full Access
Joined: 12/26/15
Posts: 36

Fellow Guitar Friends,

my opinion is just that, nothing more ...

I have no affiliation with the company beyond being a subscriber like many of you.

[br]First a candid disclaimer : I have NOT personally used the BETA messaging system as of yet, therefore I will focus my commentary and observations more broadly with emphasis on the social aspect that I feel might enhance the "stickiness" to this product.

[br][br]< Apply Flame retardant suit 🔥 = ON >

I personally have to applaud GT attempts at innovation, and hope they are ultimately successful at deeper social interaction in our community.

like many of us, I am not immune to information from other educational sources and competing sites before we landed here on our respective journeys.

I find learning to play this instrument an absolute joy. I can't help but want to share my experience with others, while learning from you my peers.

3 sources of social interaction that GT could leverage come to mind (likely amid several more that I'm unaware of)

[br][br]

1. JamPlay, competing online video-based platform, offers interactive chat rooms on a variety of topics. While on trial subscription I found an immediately available and responsive online guitar instructor daily from morning until evening, with a variety of chat rooms on various topics.

it was not uncommon to befriend another random user and splinter to another room where a user might demonstrate them playing riffs, songs, or technique.

I'll admit my return to GT felt like an isolated ghost town, excellent video instruction, but not nearly as productive as when multiple live resources were available.

[br]2. Ultimate Guitar iPad app, tech-based front-end tool to user submitted guitar tablature. Last year they implemented a "Shots" feature, for players to record up to 60-second video clips, complete with +Follow buttons and immediate community comments, with a #FeatureMe tag for submission to a moderated global publication, intended to increase popularity within the network.

like JamPlay's liveliness, users are worldwide and you can expect helpful and constructive criticisms on an off the cuff short video upload anytime day or night.

[br]3. YouTube, based on the aggressive advertising campaign and active recruitment of learners, GT seems to be doing a good job adding to its subscribers numbers.

GT lessons are 1000% more accurate, and require much more focus and time investment to properly learn a song down to the complete structure -- most excellent for those gigging in cover bands and thorough students. I feel I'm not alone periodically venturing back to YouTube to learn just a main riff or a solo, or songs not fully licensed by GT.

recently i have noticed a growing and supportive community of personable players (beginning, amateurs, to gigging musicians, luthiers, and full-time YTers) live-streaming interactive video sessions seemingly day and night, with varying audiences of 2-3 people to over a thousand tuning in at specific days and times per schedule, or random pop up shows, when one livestream ends, another begins and the party stays largely intact.

-----

i feel that live, communal learning, is the organic evolution of video-based instruction. GuitarTricks has a valuable business to protect. I applaud their efforts to innovate in the face of these (and other) highly competitive threats as opposed to letting their platform grow stagnant.

while the BETA implementation of a new Direct Messaging system may not be fully baked, or even ready for alpha as some attest, please do not fault Billy or the developers for taking initiative to experiment (albeit prematurely if all comments in this thread are accurate)

Look, you can grow a business in 3 ways, ....

-- by expanding your customer base (e.g. positive grid and Fender Play marketing largely to females),

-- by capturing a higher % of market share (GT advertising to Guitar oriented YT channels),

-- and lastly by building new

-- products (singing, piano, ukulele lessons?) and

-- services (fabulous thrice weekly group lesson concept abruptly aborted early 2019 due to lack of interest 😢)

for your existing customers.

We should be thankful the executives are exploring ways to enhance and more deeply connect its users on the system that we have all chosen to help guide us on our guitar journeys.

[br]< /End Flame-retardant suit 🔥 = OFF >

respectfully yours, best regards to all,

-- Wolverine 🤟🏻🙂🤘🏻🎸


# 12
Guitar Tricks Admin
Full Access
Joined: 09/28/05
Posts: 3,259

alphasmoochie,

Direct messsages can be located inside the forum. I have attached a picture to help you locate the section easily.


If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us.
# 13
aliasmaximus
Hippie at Heart
Joined: 02/22/22
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by: Guitar_Tricks_Admin

Thanks for the feedback manXcat! Again, the system is in beta, and to be honest, we do not currently see the feature being used at the scale we had hoped. It's just not something that we're going to invest time into if there is a very very tiny amount of messages actually being sent each month.

What kind of strange logic is that?

"Our beta DM system is crappy. Members don't want to use a crappy DM system and consequently don't send many messages. Therefore, we're content to neglect improving the crappy beta DM system."

Imagine if everybody used that logic in their everyday lives.

"I make crappy "beta" widgets. People don't want to use crappy widgets and consequently, few people buy my widgets. Because sales of my widgets are so low, I'm content to neglect improving my crappy "beta" widgets".

That's your business model?

I for one want a decent Direct Messaging system, and I think a lot of people in here are with me (this thread has been viewed by over 7,000 members). I've done my share of coding and know that it would [u]not[/u] be an overwhelming task, even for a single computer programmer, to implement the things suggested in this thread. Even flailing AOL was able to implement useful a DM system on their message boards over 25 years ago.

Why can't you just give this matter some serious thought and then provide us with a [u]meaningful[/u] answer rather than the logical fallacy that you thoughtlessly tossed into the ring to appease the naysayers and to effectively slam the door on DM enthusiasts?

C'mon Admin, up your game already. We expect more from you, and rightfully so.

Nicolai


"Whatever you are, be a good one" - Abraham Lincoln

# 14
john of MT
Full Access
Joined: 10/08/09
Posts: 1,385

"Strange" is a good word choice.

From the point of view of this user, there was a very good Direct Message system available for a long, long time. Then one day it went away.

I don't know but I think that it would require little investment to simply bring back what members once had.


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 15
JoanneFraser
Registered User
Joined: 07/15/20
Posts: 5

hm, that sounds kind of weird


# 16
aliasmaximus
Hippie at Heart
Joined: 02/22/22
Posts: 252

I agree. Strange, weird, odd, bizzare. I don't know why Admin is forever coy about telling us why they won't implement a useful DM feature. We occasionally get answers from them but always answers that are illogical and/or simply not credible.

It's been over two years since Admin moved the thread to this forum, reminding all that the system was rudimentary and "still in BETA" but would be improved in the future. Not a stitch of noticeable progress since then. My current account is new but I've been here for years listening to the mounting drivel.

Originally Posted by: John_of_MT

From the point of view of this user, there was a very good Direct Message system available for a long, long time. Then one day it went away.

Just "went away" ? Why?

What say you Admin?

Nicolai


"Whatever you are, be a good one" - Abraham Lincoln

# 17
aliasmaximus
Hippie at Heart
Joined: 02/22/22
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by: Guitar_Tricks_Admin

...the system is in beta, and [u]to be honest[/u], we do not currently see the feature being used at the scale we had hoped. [u]It's just not something that we're going to invest time into[/u] if there is a very very tiny amount of messages actually being sent each month.

-Billy

Hello GT Admin (Billy),

Your last response wasn't entirely clear. To help elucidate Admin's position pertaining to DM, would you please answer just one more question:

Has GT Admin already decided not to upgrade the current beta version of DM for the foreseeable future?

I'm ready to accept Admin's decision to not upgrade. Whatever your decision, I believe there are many members here who would very much appreciate a definitive answer to this one simple question. Thank you.

Nicolai


"Whatever you are, be a good one" - Abraham Lincoln

# 18
Guitar Tricks Admin
Full Access
Joined: 09/28/05
Posts: 3,259

Hey Nicolai,

We do not have any immediate plans to update this feature. As it doesn't get used very often, we have not been priortizing it. It is a possibility that we will take a look later in the year. We currently have some other large projects and releases coming up, so this feature is going to be taking the backseat for a while longer.


If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us.
# 19
aliasmaximus
Hippie at Heart
Joined: 02/22/22
Posts: 252

Cool. Thanks.

It occurred to me that most guitar sites don't operate a forum, which I've found to be tremendously helpful in the learning process as it allows the kind of question and answer that's needed to effectively learn via pre-recorded videos. We even get to interact directly with instructors! The DM system was apparently offered as additional icing on the cake. A tricked out DM system would be nice, but it's not necessary for learning. I just lost sight of that.

Seeing things in this new light, I would like to apologize to Admin for being a pain in the butt about this matter. But don't worry, I'll find something else to bother you about ;)

Nicolai


"Whatever you are, be a good one" - Abraham Lincoln

# 20