Chord Progressions Help

I've spent a lot of time learning scales and have grasped it pretty well now.

I'm working on chord progressions and I need help with some theory.

So I start a progression and there are some that I know especially with the basic beginner chords that everyone learns how to play, but most of the time I'm just going along the fret board trying to find something that sounds good with the other chords i've already played. Trial and Error. Most of these chords you learn at the start are boring. You can only play them so many times before you feel the need to omit or add notes.

What I'm trying to ask is... There's limitless information out there that can tell me what my options are if I'm making a progression in the key of C. Well what if I want to use a chord like C#mno5addD or D/F#? Where do I find online or any kind of resource for using these kinds of chords? Or even better, what knowledge of theory do I need to understand to be able to know my options and build a progression without help?

So essentially, you're looking to add more complex chords to your progressions, correct?

Feel free to clarify if I'm misunderstanding you.

First, I would say this: Don't look to over-complicate your progressions. Most chord progressions are actually really simple, especially when you're talking about popular songs that we all know. The more complex chord shapes have their place, but generally speaking, you don't need to know them to create effective and catchy progressions.

If you want to start understanding those chords, I'd say it starts primarily with your understanding of intervals.

For example, a chord is (inherently) just a collection of intervals that all relate to the root note.

Here are a few interval resources I'd recommend starting with:

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=362
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1590
http://www.guitarchalk.com/guitar-intervals/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_2i-APA4BQ (guitarlessons.com)

Once you understand intervals you'll have an easier time making sense of the construction and purpose of those other chords.

I hope this is helpful! If not, let me know and I'll take another stab at it.

Originally Posted by: Guitar Tricks AdminSo essentially, you're looking to add more complex chords to your progressions, correct?

Feel free to clarify if I'm misunderstanding you.

If you want to start understanding those chords, I'd say it starts primarily with your understanding of intervals.

For example, a chord is (inherently) just a collection of intervals that all relate to the root note.

Here are a few interval resources I'd recommend starting with:

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=362
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1590
http://www.guitarchalk.com/guitar-intervals/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_2i-APA4BQ (guitarlessons.com)

Once you understand intervals you'll have an easier time making sense of the construction and purpose of those other chords.

I hope this is helpful! If not, let me know and I'll take another stab at it.[/QUOTE]


Thanks I will check those out and see if it's going to help me with what I'm doing.

[QUOTE=Guitar Tricks Admin]
First, I would say this: Don't look to over-complicate your progressions. Most chord progressions are actually really simple, especially when you're talking about popular songs that we all know. The more complex chord shapes have their place, but generally speaking, you don't need to know them to create effective and catchy progressions.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with playing songs you like, but the idea of making my own music is way more appealing to me. I think it's what differentiates an instrument player and a true musician. Plus the theory (up to a certain point) is intriguing to me. Since I don't have years under my belt, understanding these theories opens more and more doors to different styles and opportunities and at a much faster rate than trial and error. This website and staff have been so helpful to me and I've learned a lot! Keeping things simple is some great advice. It's not that I want to create these crazy over-complicated progressions. I just want more opened doors to give me options :)

Thanks so much for your reply! :) :cool: :D

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
I'm working on chord progressions and I need help with some theory.
[/quote]
You need to understand how chords & scales are related to each other. First make sure you really know this stuff.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=426
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=427
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=428

Then go to this intro to music theory for how chord progressions are built & function.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=495

Finally, you need to know that chord progressions are built the way they are because they follow the melody of the music.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588Most of these chords you learn at the start are boring. You can only play them so many times before you feel the need to omit or add notes.
[/quote]
That's why we learn triads & inversions. There is no getting away from playing basic major & minor chords for as long as you play music. But learning triads & inversions opens up the whole guitar to virtually limitless voicings of those basic chords so they aren't just the same old thing.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=148
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=730
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=731
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=733
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=734
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
Well what if I want to use a chord like C#mno5addD or D/F#? Where do I find online or any kind of resource for using these kinds of chords?

Chords & chord progressions come in two basic flavors:

1. Functional
2. Ornamental

Both of them are ways to make the voices (the individual notes) of the chord move as melodies.

To use your example, you'd play a D/F# if you want to hear the bass line move from G to F# to E in this chord progression.

G - D - Emin

If you play those chords in root position you get a bass line that follows the root notes:

G (leap up to) - D (leap down to) - E

|--3----2-----0------------------------------|
|--0----3-----0------------------------------|
|--0----2-----0------------------------------|
|--0----0-----2------------------------------|
|--2----------2------------------------------|
|--3----------0------------------------------|


But if you use the D/F#, then you get a particular different flavor with a linear descending bass voice motion.

G (step down to) - F# (step down to) - E

|---3--2--0----------------------------------|
|---0--3--0----------------------------------|
|---0--2--0----------------------------------|
|---0--0--2----------------------------------|
|---2--0--2----------------------------------|
|---3--2--0----------------------------------|


It's all about the motion of the voices; how the notes of the chord move. And once you learn inversions, then you can play those chords up or down, in any direction, any place on the guitar that you want to! 2 examples!

|----3---5---7-------------------------------|
|----3---7---8-------12---10---8-------------|
|----4---7---9-------12---11---9-------------|
|--------------------12---12---9-------------|
|--------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------|

To answer in a more general sense!

How do you know when to use a given chord? When the melody outlines it or suggests it (functional), or you want that particular sound in the music at that point (ornamental).

How do you know if the melody outlines it? By playing a lot of melodies & chord progressions to see & hear for yourself how it works!

Have a look at these basic classical lessons that explicitly show how melodies are supported by chords. Very simple stuff, but you've got to walk before you can run. I wish I could convince more beginner guitar students to really grasp this stuff. So many people want to just play something, or play more weird chords. Then eventually they wonder why they don't really understand how music works.

This stuff is how music works!

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=166
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=167
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1662

How do you know if you want the particular flavor of an odd chord? By playing a lot of weird chords many times & remembering the sounds categorically so you can play them as needed.

These jazz tutorials will give you a great insight into how some "weird" chords actually make a lot of sense once you understand how they are functioning.

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1166
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1185
https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=1195

[QUOTE=icebreaker1588] Or even better, what knowledge of theory do I need to understand to be able to know my options and build a progression without help?

The above links will teach you the knowledge. After that comes many hours & days of practice. :)

Best of success!
(Edited to fix error!)

I think you just explained exactly what i was looking for. Thanks so much yet again christopher!

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588I think you just explained exactly what i was looking for. Thanks so much yet again christopher!

Good deal! Have fun with it. :)

My mind was literally just blown....

So...for any of those triads (inverted, 3rd, 5th, or 7th or not) I can think of them as just shapes that move up or down the fretboard going a a# b c c# d d# etc etc... just like the barre chords do???? Why did I not notice this before???????


What you're trying to tell me is that in about 10 minutes you taught me how to play and identify a thousand different chords????!!!!!!

And now i feel dumb.

First, I fixed an error in the tab of my reply above.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
So...for any of those triads (inverted, 3rd, 5th, or 7th or not) I can think of them as just shapes that move up or down the fretboard going a a# b c c# d d# etc etc... just like the barre chords do????[/quote]
Yes, that's how the guitar works. That's why it's so crucial to learn those shapes, those patterns of scales & chords.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
What you're trying to tell me is that in about 10 minutes you taught me how to play and identify a thousand different chords????!!!!!!

Yes! :D But now comes the hard part, digging in to practice, memorize, learn & use that knowledge until it becomes second nature!

Full speed ahead. :)

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel

Yes! :D But now comes the hard part, digging in to practice, memorize, learn & use that knowledge until it becomes second nature!

Full speed ahead. :)

I love watching your youtube channel. Can't wait till I can express myself through guitar like you do. You don't have to think much about it! You let loose and play what you want.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588My mind was literally just blown....
What you're trying to tell me is that in about 10 minutes you taught me how to play and identify a thousand different chords????!!!!!!

This, I believe, is one of the most beautiful and unique aspects of the guitar and its theory/construction.

It's truly one of the best instruments. :)

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588I love watching your youtube channel. Can't wait till I can express myself through guitar like you do. You don't have to think much about it! You let loose and play what you want.

Thanks for watching. Glad to hear you are enjoying it. :)

Okay so I reviewed all of the lessons at least once to understand the concepts.

So I'll just see here if I'm getting this.


V) D/F#
I)G
III)Bmno5
II)Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
Dmaj7no5/C# or F#5addD/C# or C#sus4no5addD
Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
G

----------------------------------------------------------------
I've done this a few times too and it sounds interesting

D/F#
G
Bmno5
Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
Dmaj7no5/C# or F#5addD/C# or C#sus4no5addD
Bmno5
C#mno5addD or Dmaj7sus2no5/C#
Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
G

Okay so I reviewed all of the lessons at least once to understand the concepts.

So I'll just see here if I'm getting this. I'm dying to understand what it is I'm doing.
This is the full progression I made from the original post.


V) D/F#
I) G
III) Bmno5
II) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
?) Dno5
?) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
I) G

e|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x--------------------------------------------|
B|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x--------------------------------------------|
G|-2--4--7--6--11--6---4--------------------------------------------|
D|-0--0--0--0---0---0---0-------------------------------------------|
A|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x-------------------------------------------|
E|-2--3--7--5--10---5---3-------------------------------------------|

And how I played it :)
[U]Acoustic Version [/U]
_____________________________________________________
Looks like I"m in the Key of G major because G is my I chord.

V) D/F#
I now know that this is a chord inversion. A D chord with F# being the lowest note in the chord.

I) G

My tonic chord because it's the resolution (even though it's not the chord the progression is started on )

III) Bmno5
Someone is probably going to have to explain the no5 part to me.

II) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A


V) Dno5
So this might be my V chord because dmajor is the V and this is just a different voicing from the D/F#?

?) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
I'm confused why it says Dmaj7/A. The no 3 part means it's missing the 3rd in the scale?

I) G

So I understand now that I'm playing these chords the way they are because I like the bass voice on the 6th string as well as when I play the chords this way I can go "up" or "down" with the voices in a specific manner that I wanted. That goes along with your chord voicings lesson and why you choose one chord voicing over the other.

When I first looked at this without all the chord names it looked really simple. I basically have 2 strings I have to fret and only 2 chord shapes to remember. My friend had showed me a couple of them. He's been playing guitar a long time, but he's not huge into music theory.

Anyway, when you look at it broken down it doesn't look simple AT ALL. In fact I failed to understand the progression I made in several ways. Some of those chords I can't figure out why they're named the way they are and what their function is in the progression. It sounds good to me, but like I said I'm asking myself "What am I doing?" and I'm needing help filling in the gaps.

Sorry this is super long, but I'm really excited to learn all this lol

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588Okay so I reviewed all of the lessons at least once to understand the concepts.[/quote]
Good idea!

Let's start by remembering that any given group of notes can be named in multiple ways. When you name a chord you can pick any of the notes to be the root & then regard the rest of the notes as relative to that root. Same for chord progressions. There is sometimes more than one way to label it so one of the chords is the I chord & the rest are measured as some distance from that root note.

How do you know which of the many possible options to use? Which ever one makes the chord & the progression easier to understand & the best option that matches how the chords sound.

The clip sounds nice! Congrats on a nicely played acoustic part. :)

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
This is the full progression I made from the original post.


V) D/F#
I) G
III) Bmno5
II) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
?) Dno5
?) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
I) G

e|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x--------------------------------------------|
B|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x--------------------------------------------|
G|-2--4--7--6--11--6---4--------------------------------------------|
D|-0--0--0--0---0---0---0-------------------------------------------|
A|-x--x--x--x---x---x---x-------------------------------------------|
E|-2--3--7--5--10---5---3-------------------------------------------|


Looks like I"m in the Key of G major because G is my I chord.
[/quote]
It could be. Or it could be that the D chord is the I chord. :)

Also, you've done a good job of labelling the most of chords by using the lowest note of each chord as the root. But that's not always the best option. Let's take it one chord at a time.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
V) D/F#
I now know that this is a chord inversion. A D chord with F# being the lowest note in the chord.
[/quote]
Good idea.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
I) G

My tonic chord because it's the resolution (even though it's not the chord the progression is started on )
[/quote]
Possibly. But also consider that you've got an A chord with a C# as the major 3rd. Usually, when you have a D major, G major & A major chord played together in a progression you've got a I-IV-V in D major.

D major (I chord)
G major (IV chord)
A major (V chord)

So, you can consider your progression to be in G major with a II chord (A major) or you can think of it as in D major. We'll review that at the end.

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
III) Bmno5
Someone is probably going to have to explain the no5 part to me.
[/quote]
no 5 means the chord has no 5th degree. This chord has the notes B & D. But a B minor chord consists of: B (1st) - D (minor 3rd) - F# (5th). Since your chord has no F#, you label it as B minor no 5th.

Let's also consider this chord from a different perspective. You could regard the note B as the 3rd of a G major chord. That way you've simply got an inversion of a G major chord. The chord doesn't have a G note. But that's okay in this context, because you've already played a G chord, you'll play another one later & that's enough to suggest that this is a G major in 1st inversion: G (no root). :)

Originally Posted by: icebreaker1588
II) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
[/quote]
Typically, the most important chord tone is the 3rd to figure out if it should be labelled major or minor. So, in this case, I'd lean toward the A major add4 (no5th), because you do have a C# as the major 3rd. Whereas calling the D the root leaves you with no 3rd to label it major or minor.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
V) Dno5
So this might be my V chord because dmajor is the V and this is just a different voicing from the D/F#?

Exactly! It simply has no A note as it's 5th.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
?) Ano5add4 or Dmaj7no3/A
I'm confused why it says Dmaj7/A. The no 3 part means it's missing the 3rd in the scale?

Exactly. Again, better labelled as a type of A major chord.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
So I understand now that I'm playing these chords the way they are because I like the bass voice on the 6th string as well as when I play the chords this way I can go "up" or "down" with the voices in a specific manner that I wanted. That goes along with your chord voicings lesson and why you choose one chord voicing over the other.

Yes, melody is the essential characteristic of music. Hearing a nice bass voice motion along with a high register melody line is what makes beautiful music.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
When I first looked at this without all the chord names it looked really simple. I basically have 2 strings I have to fret and only 2 chord shapes to remember. My friend had showed me a couple of them. He's been playing guitar a long time, but he's not huge into music theory.

The open D string as a drone string gives this progression a unifying sound making all the chords sound like they belong together. It also provides a Big Clue as to the key. ;)
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
Anyway, when you look at it broken down it doesn't look simple AT ALL. In fact I failed to understand the progression I made in several ways. Some of those chords I can't figure out why they're named the way they are and what their function is in the progression. It sounds good to me, but like I said I'm asking myself "What am I doing?" and I'm needing help filling in the gaps.

In bare bones essence your progression could be thought of in G major like this:

D/F# (V) - G (I) - G/B (I) - A (II) or (V of V) - D (V) - A (II) - G (I)

But it might make more sense to think of it as in D major like this.

D/F# (I) - G (IV) - G/B (IV) - A (V) - D (I) - A (V) - G (IV)

The reason is that you've got this D string ringing throughout & all your notes & chords are naturally occurring in D major. But if you think of it as in G major you have to modulate to get the C# of the A major chord. Which is fine, but the simplest & most efficient solution is usually best.

Chord progressions don't have to begin or end on the tonic. Leaving it hanging on the IV chord gives it an interesting "open ended" or "longing" sound.

Or I bet you'll find if you strum a big D major chord at the end of this progression it will put a nice finishing touch on it. :) Or even better an A major, then D major.
[QUOTE=icebreaker1588]
Sorry this is super long, but I'm really excited to learn all this lol

No worries! This is fun to discuss. :) I'm glad you're excited about it, learning & having fun!

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel
Let's start by remembering that any given group of notes can be named in multiple ways. When you name a chord you can pick any of the notes to be the root & then regard the rest of the notes as relative to that root. Same for chord progressions. There is sometimes more than one way to label it so one of the chords is the I chord & the rest are measured as some distance from that root note.

How do you know which of the many possible options to use? Which ever one makes the chord & the progression easier to understand & the best option that matches how the chords sound.

[/QUOTE]

Alright this is new so I'll definitely have to keep it in mind.

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel
The clip sounds nice! Congrats on a nicely played acoustic part. :)
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but you're being nice. It sounds miserable. I used the mic from some gaming headphones. lol :)

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel
Also, you've done a good job of labelling the most of chords by using the lowest note of each chord as the root. But that's not always the best option. Let's take it one chord at a time.
[/QUOTE]

I just used a [U]chord designer website[/U] which speeds things up for me. I've been learning the notes on the fretboard, but memorizing it all is like running across a football field of glass. Hard to make it stick. I can count it out, but that's very time consuming!

Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel
Possibly. But also consider that you've got an A chord with a C# as the major 3rd. Usually, when you have a D major, G major & A major chord played together in a progression you've got a I-IV-V in D major.

D major (I chord)
G major (IV chord)
A major (V chord)

So, you can consider your progression to be in G major with a II chord (A major) or you can think of it as in D major. We'll review that at the end.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I guess with some progressions I'll have to take a step back from looking at these modified chords and think... "Is this very similar to a common I/IV/V of any applicable chord?" and "What is the simplest and most natural way to label this?"


[QUOTE=ChristopherSchlegel]
Let's also consider this chord from a different perspective. You could regard the note B as the 3rd of a G major chord. That way you've simply got an inversion of a G major chord. The chord doesn't have a G note. But that's okay in this context, because you've already played a G chord, you'll play another one later & that's enough to suggest that this is a G major in 1st inversion: G (no root). :)

That's kinda out there. That will be really difficult to point out or explain on my own.

[QUOTE=ChristopherSchlegel]
[U]Typically, the most important chord tone is the 3rd to figure out if it should be labelled major or minor.[/U] So, in this case, I'd lean toward the A major add4 (no5th), because you do have a C# as the major 3rd. Whereas calling the D the root leaves you with no 3rd to label it major or minor.

Alright! Another new concept learned. Not exactly sure why that is though. And then... by having it labelled as an A root I have my V chord in D major?


[QUOTE=ChristopherSchlegel]
The open D string as a drone string gives this progression a unifying sound making all the chords sound like they belong together. It also provides a Big Clue as to the key. ;)

haha yeah I probably should have taken that into consideration.


[QUOTE=ChristopherSchlegel]
Chord progressions don't have to begin or end on the tonic. Leaving it hanging on the IV chord gives it an interesting "open ended" or "longing" sound.

Or I bet you'll find if you strum a big D major chord at the end of this progression it will put a nice finishing touch on it. :) Or even better an A major, then D major.

Yeah I left it on the A chord in the clip. I thought that sounded cool. I'll play with the D chord too.