head/cabinet question


bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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01/09/2015 8:32 am
I'm having trouble finding information on this:

My Blackstar HT-1R (combo amp) can act as a head if I connect it to a cabinet. My question is this: for pedals that should go after the overdrive (like delay) can I put pedals in between the head (my Blackstar) and the cabinet?

I would have my guitar connect to my wah pedal, my wah pedal connected to the head, the head connected to delay, and the delay connect to the cabinet. Does that work?
# 1
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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01/09/2015 4:29 pm
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777I'm having trouble finding information on this:

My Blackstar HT-1R (combo amp) can act as a head if I connect it to a cabinet. My question is this: for pedals that should go after the overdrive (like delay) can I put pedals in between the head (my Blackstar) and the cabinet?

I would have my guitar connect to my wah pedal, my wah pedal connected to the head, the head connected to delay, and the delay connect to the cabinet. Does that work?

No. Usually an external speaker output is designed only for that purpose (voltage, amperage, resistance): to run the signal to a speaker.

The best option is to use an FX loop if you don't want to run an FX unit in front of the amp. In this case, I don't think that amp has a rear FX loop option. So, I'd just plug it in at the end of your signal chain right before it hits the front end of the amp.

Guitar > Wah > Delay > Amp
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maggior
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maggior
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01/09/2015 6:20 pm
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777I'm having trouble finding information on this:

My Blackstar HT-1R (combo amp) can act as a head if I connect it to a cabinet. My question is this: for pedals that should go after the overdrive (like delay) can I put pedals in between the head (my Blackstar) and the cabinet?

I would have my guitar connect to my wah pedal, my wah pedal connected to the head, the head connected to delay, and the delay connect to the cabinet. Does that work?


Yes, Chris is correct, but I think some emphasis is necessary...you'd NEVER want to do that!!! Depending on the power output of your amp and the volume you have it set to, you could blow the pedal. Since your amp wouldn't see the proper load (the speaker), it could blow your amp also.

It's more than it won't work or sound good, you can do serious damage to your gear.

The effect loop that Chris mentioned allows you to put effects between the pre-amp (the part of your amp with the tone and volume controls) and the power-amp (the part of your amp connected to the speaker).

Some effects work best in the effect loop, others between the guitar and the amp input. This becomes important if you are using your amp for your distortion. If you set your amp for a clean signal and use an outboard pedal for your distortion, then entire pedal chain can go in between the guitar and amp. Of course there's a suggested order in which they should be connected :).

If you search the forums and/or internet for "guitar pedal chain order" or "guitar effect loop" you'll find detailed information.
# 3
bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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01/10/2015 12:25 am
The problem with putting the delay before the amp is that I use the amp's overdrive channel. When the delay pedal is on before the overdrive, the delay sounds like crap.

And maggior, I know what you mean. I always have my wah and distortion going into the amps input.

There is something I figured out though; it's not the best solution, but it's something:

The Blackstar HT-1R has an emulated output jack where you can connect it to an interface or regular speakers. So I connected it to my delay pedal, then connect the delay pedal to my speakers, and it works! So for recording it looks like this will be okay.

I just wish it had an effects loop. But I guess this company realized that most people would be using this amp for practice, so there's not as much of a need to be able to set up all my pedals.

Thanks for the info.
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maggior
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maggior
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01/10/2015 4:41 am
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777The problem with putting the delay before the amp is that I use the amp's overdrive channel. When the delay pedal is on before the overdrive, the delay sounds like crap.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's exactly why there is an effect loop on "better" amps.

[QUOTE=bbzswa777]
And maggior, I know what you mean. I always have my wah and distortion going into the amps input.

There is something I figured out though; it's not the best solution, but it's something:

The Blackstar HT-1R has an emulated output jack where you can connect it to an interface or regular speakers. So I connected it to my delay pedal, then connect the delay pedal to my speakers, and it works! So for recording it looks like this will be okay.

I just wish it had an effects loop. But I guess this company realized that most people would be using this amp for practice, so there's not as much of a need to be able to set up all my pedals.

Thanks for the info.


For recording, that's a great solution...good idea. I think you are right that since it is a practice amp, it's not going to have the extra of an effects loop. Something for you to keep in mind when you get yourself an amp for gigging!
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bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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01/10/2015 7:47 am
Originally Posted by: maggiorI think you are right that since it is a practice amp, it's not going to have the extra of an effects loop. Something for you to keep in mind when you get yourself an amp for gigging!


Exactly! I'm looking into the Blackstar HT-5R which has an effects loop, a footswitch to switch between clean and crunch channels, and more precise EQ controls. Supposedly it's good enough for gigging if you mic it up of course.

So not to open another bag of worms, but if you're going to mic up an amp anyway, why is it necessary to have higher wattage amps (like 40, 60, or 80)?
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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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01/10/2015 4:45 pm
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777So not to open another bag of worms, but if you're going to mic up an amp anyway, why is it necessary to have higher wattage amps (like 40, 60, or 80)?

It's not necessary to have more wattage in order to mic an amp. Those are two different things, sometimes at cross purposes.

The purpose of a larger amp is to be heard in a large space & over the drums & other instruments. The purpose of micing & using a PA is also to be heard in a large space, but more importantly to have precise control over the relative volumes of all the instruments & vocals, to balance the sound; hence, the term "mixing".

Often a smaller amp is much better in recording & even on stage because you can get the full range of it's power. A 20-30 watt amp can be great for all purposes because you can crank it to 10 & use it optimally.

Most people will gig in a small room (bar, club, church) & this size amp is more than enough to be heard & to mic for the PA to achieve a great tone that blends well.

Once you get to 50 watt & 100 watt amps you are really talking larger halls & arenas. And even then it's sometimes difficult to mic, mix & blend!

There are lots of tricks that were developed to control & capture the sound of a large amp to make it useful: power brake, baffles, & eventually the pre-amp gain stages.

It's interesting that so many well known albums were recorded with & classic rock guitarists used smaller wattage amps in the beginning of their careers. Then the push for BIG AMPS came with the Wall of Marshalls! Now, over the last decade or so the market is moving back to smaller scale amps for the wider applications they provide. Especially in the boutique market!

Interesting stuff!
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bbzswa777
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bbzswa777
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01/10/2015 11:44 pm
The wall of Marshalls is exactly what I was thinking of. So I guess those guys weren't exactly using a PA for all those lol
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ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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01/11/2015 3:36 pm
Originally Posted by: bbzswa777The wall of Marshalls is exactly what I was thinking of. So I guess those guys weren't exactly using a PA for all those lol

Although there are some players that actually use more than one, for the most part that is an illusion. Sometimes, only one amp is active & cab is miked. More often everything on the stage is for show & the real head & cab being used is off stage in a rack where the guitar techs can get to it quickly & replace or fix it.

And then there's some of this.

http://cdo.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/a.jpg
http://www.makenmusic.com/blog_v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/dummycabs.jpg

Google "fake wall of marshall amps". :)
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SJWeissen
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SJWeissen
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01/11/2015 9:32 pm
While there certainly have been and are currently many examples of the fake "wall of Marshalls" lets not forget the original idea and who everyone was trying to copy.

Owsley's Wall of Sound made for the Grateful Dead

tech specs for the wall of sound

A great image from the Wall of Sound era
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