What scales should I play for these chords to come up with solos and lead parts?

In my band we have some chord progressions that I am trying to create some lead and solo parts to them and I'm not sure what scales to play.

One progression is C, Em, Am, Em with a capo on the third fret.
and another one is D, G, Cadd9 for the intro and verses and C, D, G and Em for the chorus.

I want to try and come up with some lead parts and solos but I am sure what the correct scales to use for them. Can someone help me out or point me in the right direction to the info?

Thanks

Nick

Originally Posted by: NickFerra
One progression is C, Em, Am, Em with a capo on the third fret.[/QUOTE]

This one is pretty straight forward. C Major scale is going to work really well. If it makes it easier to get started, you can think of it as A minor pentatonic. That'll get you going... but try to incorporate the full major scale if you can.

You could also use C Lydian for this progression... the fourth degree of the scale is raised from F to F#... a little tricker to fit in there, but may give some phrases an interesting sound if used with care (be careful with Lydian scales, your guitar may explode).

By the way, if you're saying that you're using the chord shapes but transposed up with the capo on the third fret, then you're going to be in the key of D# / Eb and you need to transpose to that key.

[QUOTE=NickFerra]
and another one is D, G, Cadd9 for the intro and verses and C, D, G and Em for the chorus.

Ok, this is where my theory kind of sucks, but to my ear, it sounds like with those chords you're in the key of G Major. The G Major scale will work great with them. Again, you could think of this as E minor if you're more familiar with that scale. If you're only familiar with pentatonic scales, the E minor pentatonic will work... BUT, you're leaving out on F# and C, and those notes will really help with creating melodies, so learn the full diatonic scale if you can... staying in just one position so you don't get lost and then experimenting with the full scale, hearing how each note sounds over the chords is a good way to start.

Hope this helps!

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardThis one is pretty straight forward. C Major scale is going to work really well. If it makes it easier to get started, you can think of it as A minor pentatonic. That'll get you going... but try to incorporate the full major scale if you can.

You could also use C Lydian for this progression... the fourth degree of the scale is raised from F to F#... a little tricker to fit in there, but may give some phrases an interesting sound if used with care (be careful with Lydian scales, your guitar may explode).

By the way, if you're saying that you're using the chord shapes but transposed up with the capo on the third fret, then you're going to be in the key of D# / Eb and you need to transpose to that key. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I am using the chord shapes with the capo on the third fret. So would that still be the C major scale even with the capo? or are you saying its D# / Eb scale? I am mostly familiar with pentatonic scales but would like to learn other scales too.



[QUOTE=Slipin Lizard] Ok, this is where my theory kind of sucks, but to my ear, it sounds like with those chords you're in the key of G Major. The G Major scale will work great with them. Again, you could think of this as E minor if you're more familiar with that scale. If you're only familiar with pentatonic scales, the E minor pentatonic will work... BUT, you're leaving out on F# and C, and those notes will really help with creating melodies, so learn the full diatonic scale if you can... staying in just one position so you don't get lost and then experimenting with the full scale, hearing how each note sounds over the chords is a good way to start.

Hope this helps!

Ok thanks for all of your help. I will record these chord progressions and play them back and play these scales over them to figure out some lead parts. I really appreciate it.

Can I get your help with one more? Bm, A, and G. I use the Bm pentatonic scale and it sounds great! I'm having fun creating some lead parts to it. Is there a major scale I can use for this progression?

Thanks man

Nick

Hey, Nick!

Originally Posted by: NickFerra
One progression is C, Em, Am, Em with a capo on the third fret.

With the capo those chords are transposed to:

C -> E-flat
E min -> G min
A min -> C min
E min -> G min

So, you could be in the key of E-flat major.

E-flat (I) - G min (iii) - C min (vi) - G min (iii)

But you could also view those chords as part of the key of G minor.

E-flat (bVI) - G min (i) - C min (iv) - G min (i)

The best way to determine this is to know what the melody line is. What notes the singer sings. However, if this is just a chord progression without an already established melody line, then you could go either way.

These tutorials will show you how to figure out what key a group of chords are in & what scales or notes you can use to solo over them with!

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=876
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=483
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=491

Hope this helps! Ask more if necessary & have fun!

Originally Posted by: NickFerraYes, I am using the chord shapes with the capo on the third fret. So would that still be the C major scale even with the capo? or are you saying its D# / Eb scale?
[/quote]
That's E-flat (or D-sharp).

Originally Posted by: NickFerraI am mostly familiar with pentatonic scales but would like to learn other scales too.

I encourage you to work through Guitar Fundamentals 2 in which I cover diatonic scales, how to practice & use them in depth.

http://www.guitartricks.com/course.php?input=2
[QUOTE=NickFerra]Bm, A, and G. I use the Bm pentatonic scale and it sounds great! I'm having fun creating some lead parts to it. Is there a major scale I can use for this progression?

D major is the relative major of B minor. They have the same notes but are rooted on D instead of B.

You can learn more about how to play various major scale patterns here:

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=453
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=887

Also, if you are already familiar with the pentatonic scales, then check out this tutorial that shows how the pentatonic boxes are simply another way of viewing the diatonic scales.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296

Have fun!

Originally Posted by: CSchlegel
I encourage you to work through Guitar Fundamentals 2 in which I cover diatonic scales, how to practice & use them in depth...

Nick, Christopher has given you a wealth of information to get you going... diatonic scales are a broad subject, and will likely lead you into further investigation of how to learn and play different scales in your solos.

It can be a bit over-whelming to start, and you may feel you're putting you're creativity on hold as you try to "catch up". To avoid this, I'd strongly recommend that you take each new concept that you learn and put it to use as soon as you learn it. This is what really helped me. I was stuck in a "pentatonic rut" for the longest time. When I started learning diatonic scales, initially I was just learning the patterns, but didn't know how to use them. I started creating my own little melodies as Christopher is suggesting, even if it was just using a couple of new notes in one position. The act of using the new scale creatively really seemed to cement the sound of the scale in my mind, and pretty soon I was finding myself coming up with new riffs & ideas, and then finding that I was playing a diatonic scale (usually a major or minor, I got into modes later).

So as you go through all that stuff, stop, go back to your own music, and see if you can use what you've just learned. There's never a moment when you get a "green light"... you're done, and you can now solo. Instead, you'll find that you're always learning new things; even as you come up with "finished" solos for your own music, you'll be discovering new ways of approaching solos that will shape your playing. Have fun!

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardNick, Christopher has given you a wealth of information to get you going... diatonic scales are a broad subject, and will likely lead you into further investigation of how to learn and play different scales in your solos.

It can be a bit over-whelming to start, and you may feel you're putting you're creativity on hold as you try to "catch up". To avoid this, I'd strongly recommend that you take each new concept that you learn and put it to use as soon as you learn it. This is what really helped me. I was stuck in a "pentatonic rut" for the longest time. When I started learning diatonic scales, initially I was just learning the patterns, but didn't know how to use them. I started creating my own little melodies as Christopher is suggesting, even if it was just using a couple of new notes in one position. The act of using the new scale creatively really seemed to cement the sound of the scale in my mind, and pretty soon I was finding myself coming up with new riffs & ideas, and then finding that I was playing a diatonic scale (usually a major or minor, I got into modes later).

So as you go through all that stuff, stop, go back to your own music, and see if you can use what you've just learned. There's never a moment when you get a "green light"... you're done, and you can now solo. Instead, you'll find that you're always learning new things; even as you come up with "finished" solos for your own music, you'll be discovering new ways of approaching solos that will shape your playing. Have fun!

hey how u doin slip.question,if he´s playing the cmj scale,would it be wise to play the second degree of the cmj,Dorian?

Originally Posted by: axe2hey how u doin slip.question,if he´s playing the cmj scale,would it be wise to play the second degree of the cmj,Dorian?

Hi Axe! In a nutshell, no. Dorian is considered a "minor" mode. If you're playing in a major key, and want to experiment trying something different, then your best bet is to try the modes that are considered "major", which are Ionian, Lydian, and Mixolydian. That's the short answer.

Someone can always come along and say "oh wait, though, Dorian could work if... (get out the chalkboard and musical note calculator)...". Which gets back to the really short answer of "there's 12 notes available, use whatever you wish". What we are dealing with when it comes to utilizing modes is what sounds good to you? You phrased the question well, saying "would it be wise"... so as a general rule, it would be wise to use the "major" modes when in a major key, and a "minor mode" when in a minor key. By the way, the chalkboard reference isn't to anyone here on Guitar Tricks... its more something that you can encounter when have these kinds of theory based conversations. Christopher is really good with this stuff... his knowledge of theory is very, very deep, but he always manages to put things in a context that us mere mortals can understand and appreciate! :)

thanks slip ,for clarifying that for me.maybe a bad choise of words,when i said would it be wise.rather is it possible too use the dorian scale.no harm meant my brother. how u doin ....

whats a chalkboard refernce?,

Originally Posted by: axe2whats a chalkboard refernce?,

i think i get it ,leave to chris for explanations.

I think he's basically saying "get into the gory technical details and do some deep analysis"...or play what sounds good.

Originally Posted by: maggiorI think he's basically saying "get into the gory technical details and do some deep analysis"...or play what sounds good.

Exactly. Axe, I wasn't referring to a "poor choice of words" on your part... your question was very well put.

its all good ,i didnt know what you meant by chalkboard.playin hard,or hardly playin.maggior i want to tell u again ,great job playin on the back track.g/3 pack.

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardNick, Christopher has given you a wealth of information to get you going... diatonic scales are a broad subject, and will likely lead you into further investigation of how to learn and play different scales in your solos.

It can be a bit over-whelming to start, and you may feel you're putting you're creativity on hold as you try to "catch up". To avoid this, I'd strongly recommend that you take each new concept that you learn and put it to use as soon as you learn it. This is what really helped me. I was stuck in a "pentatonic rut" for the longest time. When I started learning diatonic scales, initially I was just learning the patterns, but didn't know how to use them. I started creating my own little melodies as Christopher is suggesting, even if it was just using a couple of new notes in one position. The act of using the new scale creatively really seemed to cement the sound of the scale in my mind, and pretty soon I was finding myself coming up with new riffs & ideas, and then finding that I was playing a diatonic scale (usually a major or minor, I got into modes later).

So as you go through all that stuff, stop, go back to your own music, and see if you can use what you've just learned. There's never a moment when you get a "green light"... you're done, and you can now solo. Instead, you'll find that you're always learning new things; even as you come up with "finished" solos for your own music, you'll be discovering new ways of approaching solos that will shape your playing. Have fun!

Hey I really appreciate the information. I am slowly begining to understand how scales and notes fit over chord progressions. It's exciting but it is very overwhelming too at the same time. Man, I just feel like I suck most of the time because it's taken me a long time to figure this stuff out. It's hard to understand sometimes but I am slowly understanding it more and more now.

Anyways thanks for all the help Chris and slip. I really appreciate it. I am going to load up the lessons Chris suggested.

Oh yeah, I recorded those chord progressions with my band. The singer is taking them home and is going to put vocals on them. Would it be safe to load them up and maybe get some suggestions afterwards? They are just rough drafts and we did them in 1 take. I did a little lead part in one of them and would like to maybe get a professional opinion on it.

One more thing. The chord progression of Bm, G and A like I talked about earlier. I play them as Barre Chords. Man they hurt my hand SO MUCH after a little while. My hand gets in so much pain. I can make them sound really pretty for about a minute but then they start hurting really bad and the sound of the chords really sound crappy afterwards the longer I play. I am worried about it because one day when we are playing a show I don't want to suffer so much in front of people. Any suggestions?

Originally Posted by: NickFerra
One more thing. The chord progression of Bm, G and A like I talked about earlier. I play them as Barre Chords. Man they hurt my hand SO MUCH after a little while. My hand gets in so much pain. I can make them sound really pretty for about a minute but then they start hurting really bad and the sound of the chords really sound crappy afterwards the longer I play. I am worried about it because one day when we are playing a show I don't want to suffer so much in front of people. Any suggestions?

What you're describing is a really common problem. The chords will become easier the more you play them, and your endurance will improve, but even so, lengthy barre chord playing can still be a challenge. I find the same thing as you... it starts off good, but there's a time limit for how long I can keep playing barre chords, and then my hand gets a bit crappy and the chords get sloppy. Some of it for sure is tension... so learning to relax will help in the long run.

In the mean time, see if you can look at different voicing or inversions of chords that make them easier to play. I'm going to side step a whole bunch of theory, and just give a simple example: Lets say you want to play an Amin chord... the notes are A, C, and E. Just figure out places on the fretboard where those notes are close enough together, regardless of order, that you can play them easily as a chord. There will be multiple possibilities and fingering options... just go by what sounds good, and what is comfortable to play. You may find you don't need a full, six or five string barre chord for what you want, but that instead, that just three notes cover the chord to your satisfaction. If not, then you're stuck with the barre chord... and endless, endless pain.... (ok, its not that bad, but you have my sympathy!) :)

I go through the same thing. Your endurance will increase with time, but as slipin' suggests, you should come up with strategies to avoid having to play full barre chords all of the time. If you watch guitarists perform, you will see that they rarely play full barre chords constantly. It gets so bad for me that him hand will cramp up.

Using your chord progression as an example, as slipin suggests you could find other voicings around the fretboard. If you want to keep the same tone characteristics of the chords, what you could do is play the G as an open chord. It sounds almost exactly like playing the E barre shape on the 3rd fret. For your Bm, you can play that on the 2nd fret with an Am barre shape but put your index finger on the 1st string second fret rather than doing the barre across the 2nd fret. Just be sure to only strum the strings that you are fretting. For the A, you could either play it as an open chord, or do a partial barre on the 5th fret. You'd be playing the open F chord shape (which is really just a partial E shape barre chord is you look at it) on the 5th fret. For this, you could add your pinky like you would in the full barre to get a fuller sound.

Just remember that with these strategies, you want to only strum the strings that you are fretting.

I hope that makes sense. Hope that helps.

Hey Nick, I think that the advice from Slip and Rich is absolutely right. I've got arthritis and my hands get wrecked if I play lots of barre chords - so I'm always trying to find easier alternatives like they recommend. And it is often possible. Plus recently I was very encouraged to hear the great BB King (my all-time guitar hero) saying 'I'm horrible with chords' in his life-story documentary 'The Life of Riley' (2012). Admittedly he has a great rhythm section to play the chords in his songs, but it just shows that even the best guitarists can have problems like those you're discussing. Good luck with it all, Steve