Are Marshalls overated?


polansky
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polansky
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02/07/2007 5:05 am
I was just reading the post on tube vs solid state, I get that are significant diferences and I get to see a lot of players worshiping Marshalls as the holy grail of amps...

Are they really that good? You have to get an expensive one to get the good stuff?... sometimes I think they are pretty overrated.

I planning on buying a new amp but Marshalls are never in my shortlist... Am I missing something?
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# 1
jiujitsu_jesus
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jiujitsu_jesus
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02/07/2007 5:23 am
I think that the best thing about Marshalls is that beautiful warm distortion - but you can get that from a much cheaper distortion pedal anyway :p
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# 2
z0s0_jp
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z0s0_jp
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02/07/2007 5:28 am
overpriced yes, overated...well they do sound great but there are some that are cheaper that sound just as good if not better.
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PRSplaya
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02/07/2007 12:52 pm
Originally Posted by: z0s0_jpoverpriced yes,,,,overated...well they do sound great but there are some that are cheaper that sound just as good if not better.

+1

They are definitely overpriced, but not necessarily overrated. The newer Marshalls maybe, but not the old ones. Just depends on what tone you're after.
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# 4
aschleman
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02/07/2007 1:57 pm
Just like most amps there are things that Marshalls do well and things they don't do well... They get that British tone, good crunch and distorted tones... they usually fall off on the wayside in terms of clean sounds unless you're getting a vintage boutique model... The JCM line is probably their most famous and it's been a work horse in the metal and hard rock industry the last 20 years or so... Most 80's metal albums were recorded on them... But like I said... it's hard to get a nice clean sound out of them. I have a JCM800 and I love it for anything hard but it's not my thing most of the time....

I'd agree that they're overpriced... they are the Gibson of the amp manufacturers... If you're going to spend 1500 dollars on an amp you might as well go with a Mesa Boogie or Genz-Benz... or another type of boutique amp... I've been lusting after a Two-Rock amp... I played one at Sam Ash a few weeks ago and it had such a great balance in it's dirty and clean tones it made me forget all about getting a Fender SuperSonic.....

Overrated... no... Marshalls have their place in the tone world... and it's a pretty historic place at that... Anyone that's ever picked up a guitar in the history of music has most likely recorded through a Marshall at some point.
# 5
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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02/07/2007 7:00 pm
I have owned 5 (3 currently) and I've loved 'em all except the VS65R which was not bipolar enough to be any fun !

My fave is the JCM2000 TSL100 half stack kitted out with JJs.

Just yummy ! Great clean tone, great crunch and if you want to bang your head, well their is always channel 3 !!

Also remember one of the reasons Marshall is soooo expensive in the US at the mo is the crappy exchange rate !!

2 bucks to the pound is gona push the price up !!
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# 6
polansky
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polansky
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02/08/2007 6:21 am
Thanks everyone for the input... my question came from my experience with them but they are prety questionable, here the story.

When I bought my 7 string I tested it on a Marshall combo (a big one but combo) I could never get a nice heavy sound with it even when I cranked the dirty channel all the way up... :( it was a small store in a mall so I could crank the volume up too much so thats my first wrong I guess.

When I bought my washburn I ran it tru another marshall combo, a bit smaller but again... a combo... I rescued (and said that again) rescued that guitar cause I was so dirty, frets had a lot of sweat and dust build up, strings were so dirty and old that when I tried some pintch harmonics I got nothing... no harmonic... but the amp didn't helped either, again tried to get a sweet heavy sound and could get anything but a wimpy overdrive. :confused:

So that's it... my experience with Marshalls have been bad in the overall, of course I can't get a stack or even a half stack (I should get to be a descent player before that) but I was surprised that so many players say..."oh I just plug my guitar and rip"... and hear all this pretty heavy sound almost in a "right out the box" concept, so I got doubtfull bout that.

I guess that if I wanna a big sound I should get a big amp, but as I said, I want to get to a especifc level of performance before getting into big buck amps, right now I'm looking to get a combo but maybe a Fender or something round $450... I wanna get some versatil amp that fills my sweet tooth for distortion and at the same time having the option to get a nice bluesy sound... so I guess I have to look hard into that.

But some day I'll kick butt and then I'll get a Mesa Double Recto... so consider all of you warned. :D
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ren
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ren
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02/08/2007 9:37 am
Originally Posted by: polanskyBut some day I'll kick butt and then I'll get a Mesa Double Recto... so consider all of you warned. :D


When you get there, try lots... I always wanted a boogie... I bought one.... then I sold it again... Now there's an amp that really is overrated IMO...

Check out my music, video, lessons & backing tracks here![br]https://www.renhimself.com

# 8
PRSplaya
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02/08/2007 12:23 pm
Sounds to me like you're expecting the wrong thing out of Marshall. Marshalls can definitely get pretty freakin' heavey, but you have to know how to work them, and low volume isn't part of the equation. I highly recommend that you try to find a Peavey 5150/6505 combo to try out. If that amp doesn't get heavey enough for you, then you just need to stop playing the guitar! (not seriously :rolleyes: ) I never... I repeat NEVER turn the gain up past 12 o'clock on the lead channel of my 5150 combo. If you want something a little smaller, and cheaper, take a look at the Traynor YCV40 and YCV50 tube combos. I can't vouch for the 40 (the 40 uses 6L6 power tubes, and the 50 uses EL34 power tubes and is voiced more like a Marshall), but I've got the 50 and it has all the gain I could ever want. You can always get an EQ pedal and/or an overdrive pedal to give you a little gain boost and to shape things a bit.
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# 9
polansky
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polansky
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02/08/2007 4:46 pm
Originally Posted by: renWhen you get there, try lots... I always wanted a boogie... I bought one.... then I sold it again... Now there's an amp that really is overrated IMO...[/QUOTE]

:eek: wow... I didn't see that coming.

[QUOTE=PRSPlaya]If that amp doesn't get heavey enough for you, then you just need to stop playing the guitar!



Or start to do stuff like Jacklyl (you know... those guys who used a chainsaw on stage...) :D

But seriously... thanks for the advice I try to check that peavey... sound like a nice choice.

One more thing Eric.. a friend of mine uses the KB series of Peavy (the ones that are like a small PA system) any coments bout those?

I know they are not proper guitar amps (being a little orthodox bout the tone topic) but they seem to work pretty well with his Zoom pedal (G1u I think it is)... he has a curious theory bout tone, he is confortable with the results of the zoom the only thing he wants is volume to that, but I still think that somehow the gear does help to found things and to shape your "sound", (being the senior founder of the AGCWBLOGTTDRNBDAA, I'm must intrested in your point of view).
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Superhuman
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Superhuman
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02/08/2007 6:42 pm
I love Marshall especially for lead, the rhythm crunch to my ear is tighter than on Mesa which has a lot of sag but does sound heavier. I get the best result from Marshall gear with the distortion/gain at between 1 and 2 o'clock. It is extremely tight and heavier in my opinion that going all the way to 10, which gets noisy and dirty in a hurry. The amp is only one part of a guitar sound, it starts with the pickups but gets is character from the hands. I have both Mesa and Marshall gear, I like them both equally. ONe thing about Marshall is the tightness and creamy distortion, you can push some serious air going through a good combo too (check out the TSL series). All about preference at the end of the day, I would certainly rate Marshall gear very highly though.
# 11
Superhuman
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Superhuman
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02/08/2007 6:46 pm
Originally Posted by: renWhen you get there, try lots... I always wanted a boogie... I bought one.... then I sold it again... Now there's an amp that really is overrated IMO...



I agree on that one, if you decide to go Boogie, get a Triaxis, it's basically all the best Boogie amps in one unit - I tried a Dual Rectifier befre and was also underwhelmed. The Triaxis is animal for distortion though, seriously heavy when driven by a Simul-Class 2:90 poweramp through a good cab. Heavy enough to make your teeth rattle - seriously;-)
# 12
Bar Chord Nick
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02/08/2007 8:02 pm
If you are using a modeler pedal like a Pod, GNX4, Zoom etc... you're best going through the P.A. Or a very uncolored amp. This is because you want to here the amp model not the amp you're playing through. Also through the P.A. you can take full advantage of the stereo feature of most these pedals.

If a modeler is not your cup of tea then nothing but trying different amps will find you you're tone.
# 13
quickfingers
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quickfingers
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02/08/2007 9:13 pm
Originally Posted by: polanskyI guess that if I wanna a big sound I should get a big amp, but as I said, I want to get to a especifc level of performance before getting into big buck amps, right now I'm looking to get a combo but maybe a Fender or something round $450... I wanna get some versatil amp that fills my sweet tooth for distortion and at the same time having the option to get a nice bluesy sound... so I guess I have to look hard into that.



line 6 is probably the way to go, man. if your looking for good tone for a price range like that, you'll probably want to head in that direction. i was in your same boat before, and buying my line 6 was a totally awesome move for me. i still use it at shows, actually. hah. the mesa-boogie emulation on their spider II series is badass to say the least. and if your like me, and play many different styles of music, using delay, tremolo and whatnot, its really an excellent option.
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aschleman
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aschleman
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02/08/2007 9:49 pm
If you're going to look at modelling amps... the Line 6 line is awesome as far as getting into the mix... However, there are a few out there that do it just as good if not better when it comes to nailing tube-tones... for instance Vox...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Vox-Valvetronix-AD100VT-100W-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=482623

That's the 2x12 it's a little over your price range but you can get into a 1x12 that's still gnarley-loud for under 400 USD... It uses Valvetronix technology to get some really bad ass tube tones that react to drive, volume, and saturation just like to all-tube amps... Where as Line 6 amps are mostly based off of a mic'd tube amp at a certain driven and saturated level... The amp looks mean too. I spent a few hours in a Guitar Center messing around a few modeling amps... one was the Crate VTX200 (I think)... which nailed some of the vintage amps... and the clean tones... The Vox AD series nails just about everything... They get VERY loud... they get great bottom end... and they have 11 vintage and modern amp models... plus built in effects and I believe it comes with a Vox footswitch.... You have to buy the Line 6 FB4 switch seperate... which is an exrta 40 bucks or so... unless you go for the long or short board which is over 100 bucks...... I like the way Vox approaches the modeling... it's a bit more professional and more presentable... Like I said though... the Line 6 Spiders are killer.... I would rather have a Flextone though than a Spider... personally... The Line 6 Spider series is largely an entry level amp... It's got tons of cool features and sounds great... but unless you go out and get the footswitch you're going to have to sit next to it all the time tweaking it. Not saying that the Line 6 doesn't fit your style more than the Vox... it's just that I think I've got a pretty good idea of what you're looking for and the Vox AD series hits the sweet spot man... Check'em both out if you can... Ultimately it's your decision bro!! All the suggestions are great suggestions though.
# 15
polansky
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polansky
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02/08/2007 10:46 pm
Thank everyone who posted... Vox sound good too and those I can get to test here in México, I'll check em out, the other thing is I do have a POD Xt live so in that way, a type of PA amps could be a good way too.

The thing that I don't know right now is... A Line 6 Sipider would model my allready modelled sound?, are best complements cause they come from the same company?.... :confused:

Cause Line 6 half stacks are pretty accesible even here, so that could be the way to go.

In other hand I cheked the web file on the Peavy 6505 combo... distortion as Eric said... I couldn't ask for more, clean tones... difficult to say but in the mp3 sound a bit thin (I would like something moe bassy).

Well.. gotta say it's a bit hard to choose a definite way but all the input it's been great. Thanks
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aschleman
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aschleman
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02/09/2007 12:59 pm
Originally Posted by: polanskyThank everyone who posted... Vox sound good too and those I can get to test here in México, I'll check em out, the other thing is I do have a POD Xt live so in that way, a type of PA amps could be a good way too.

The thing that I don't know right now is... A Line 6 Sipider would model my allready modelled sound?, are best complements cause they come from the same company?.... :confused:

Thanks


If you use the features on your PODxt Live a lot without touching your amp too much you might want to check into getting a 2x12 cabinet and a power amp.... and just using your PODxt as the preamp... Which is usually the better way to hear any multi effects processor... An amp like a mesa, marshall, or fender will all make your pod sound differently... Meaning... when you dial in a killer tone using a JCM model and you play it through a Fender... It's going to sound like a JCM playing through a Fender... not a true JCM... With a power amp you bypass the colorization of an amps preamp and use the pure tone of your PODxt... You could get a cheap 2x12 cabinet and swap out the speakers for some nice ones that compliment your tone they way that you want it to as well... It's just a more customizable way to go about it... Rather than buying a setup that hundreds of thousands of people already have... you'll have a setup that's pretty unique... That's the best part of being a tone-whore... Going places and getting tone that no one else can get with stock equipment... But like you said... try some amps out. The best thing would be to take your POD into the shops and run it through the amps to see how they react... But you're right... maybe a modeling amp wouldn't be the best way to go since you already have a PODxt...

And you're welcome.
# 17
polansky
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polansky
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02/09/2007 5:13 pm
Originally Posted by: aschleman You could get a cheap 2x12 cabinet and swap out the speakers for some nice ones that compliment your tone they way that you want it to as well... It's just a more customizable way to go about it... Rather than buying a setup that hundreds of thousands of people already have... you'll have a setup that's pretty unique...


Thanks bro... that's an awesome idea... I must check some gear like that... big sound small buck (or at least before I swap for some nice speakers).

Any suggestions on the power amp?
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# 18
aschleman
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aschleman
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02/09/2007 5:41 pm
Originally Posted by: polanskyThanks bro... that's an awesome idea... I must check some gear like that... big sound small buck (or at least before I swap for some nice speakers).

Any suggestions on the power amp?


There are tons and tons of power amps out there. Most of them are rack mount power amps... Which are made to be bolted into a rack unit that has several other types of preamps and other gadgets like compressors, tuners, noise gates, and so on...

Crate makes a really cost effective power amp called the Power Block (I think)... Basically it's just a little 150w power amp that can be had for around 200-250 bucks. Probably around 150 on Ebay... ebay is a great place to pickup equipment like power amps because they're very very basic pieces of epuipment... Some have tubes which help to give them the reactions of actual tube amps... However, those are quite a bit more expensive, which is to be expected. Check out the Power Block... it's a neat little piece of kit that will let you go between playing loud and playin low volumes without having to worry about tube saturation... It's very portable as well... it only weighs like 5 pounds or something like that... Like I said though... go to Ebay and type "guitar power amp" in the search engine and you should come up with tons of stuff... You can usually find one for cheap on there too.
# 19
polansky
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polansky
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02/10/2007 3:28 am
Maybe I've been sounding like a cheap prick but I'm not, belive me when I get to a certain level of performance I'm gonna declare bankrupt cuase I wanna so much good gear, but right now I wanna do the budget gear and try to get the best I can wih that.

Crate block... hellyeah I know it and looks cool too, well It's time to do some gear hunt and see what I can come up.

Once again thanks to all... and I have to say my bro aschleman rules.

Rock on
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
# 20

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