Serious Floyd Rose Problem


pogohead
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pogohead
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10/20/2005 12:09 pm
Hi there

I bought a second hand epiphone explorer with a floyd rose trem that locks at the nut and has little screw clamps at the bridge.

Originally I restrung it and did all the spring adjusting to get the bridge parallel and tuned it to normal pitch without many problems, but I've recently needed to detune to D for a gig and I'm having some problems.

I readjusted the springs to make up for the lack of tension and tuned with the machine heads. I then locked the nut and made sure it was still in tune. I then noticed there was a lot of fret buzz so I've ended up turning the mounting screws to raise the bridge (I first tried moving the saddles but this didnt work well).

Now it simply will not stay in tune. I tune the strings to pitch using the fine tuners and find theres intonation problems (seriously not easy to rectify), then I play for 30 seconds and it goes out of tune again. I keep tuning it then the second I use the tremolo arm it goes out of tune again, sometimes up, sometimes down.

Often if I press the bar and let go (this happened in normal pitch too) it'll stay in tune but if I pull it up 1mm it sort of gets stuck in a higher pitch.

Someone help me please! The gig is my wedding and my missus will be devastated if I don't play :(
# 1
baci
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baci
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10/20/2005 1:23 pm
Moving the saddles would throw the intonation of the guitar all out, which in turn could make your tuning....a nightmare, that could be one of the problems, it may lie somewhere else, but i'd say its that personally.... ;)

I'd take it for a good pro. Setup @ your local guitar shop, if thats not an option, id read read read and read some more about setting a guitar up
# 2
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/20/2005 2:31 pm
I've just tried it again. The really weird thing is its ever so slightly out of tune, but when you dip the bar etc. it stays exactly the same. I've then tuned it and it won't stay like that. Its almost as if it's trying to spite me :mad:
# 3
aschleman
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aschleman
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10/20/2005 3:19 pm
Hm... Make sure the locking nut is tightened as tight as you can get it. The purpose of it is to hold the strings tightly so they stay in the tuning that you put them in... Another thing is... tuning the guitar down to drop D is probably what is causing the fret buzz... You're probably using light guage strings with a low action set-up... and any decrease in string tension will cause fret buzz... I suggest getting a larger gauge string set... This will counteract the detuning fret buzz. Also, moving the saddles back and forth won't change the action, just the intonation... and this could be part of your tuning woes. Unless you know how to adjust intonation I would suggest taking it to a tech. I could explain how to do it but that doesn't mean that's neccessarily the problem. In order to effectivly fix the problem that you have I would have to see and play the instrument... So in review...

1. Tune the guitar to standard tuning...
2. Install the locking nut... make sure its super tight
3. Drop the E sting to D tuning
4. Adjust the trem springs appropriately
5. Adjust the E string Saddle up as needed...

In the long run if this doesn't help at all... I would say take it to a tech a get a set-up... Use larger gauge strings so you can go between Drop D and standard without bottoming out on the fret board.

Good luck
# 4
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/20/2005 3:33 pm
thanks for the assistance but i messed up. when i said i moved the saddles, i meant the action; up or down. the intonation seems to be ok (i got that off a site) and i've got the action sorted (moved the bridge) but the main problem seems to be the going out of tune when the bars depressed.

i've tried clamping harder, which helps but it still gets stuck slightly higher if i pull the bar up at all (which is annoying if you wanna play any vai), then drops back when i next press the bar.

standing up seems to affect it too. if i play a note and rotate the guitar at all it sorta goes up then back down again lol.
# 5
aschleman
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aschleman
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10/20/2005 3:36 pm
Hm... sounds like somethings not quite right in that FR. Something may be loose or something is moving around in there causing it. I would still say take it to a tech and see what they say!
# 6
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/20/2005 3:37 pm
think i'd better.

thanks a lot :)
# 7
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/21/2005 1:53 am
Pogo -

Sounds to me like you have dirty pivot points. Your gonna need to loosen the strings and remove the trem springs so you can examine your hardware. Get a magnifyer and look at the fulcrum points on the bride. If there is any "crud", dirt, dust, peeling chrome or gold plateing, you are going to want to clean it up. If the plating is chipped and or peeling, take some 400 grit sand paper and clean off these edges. Also examine the points of contact in the grooves of your pivot posts. They need to be clean as well. Use alchohol and Q-tips to remove dirts and debris.

Also, if the fulcrum points on the bridge are bent of chipped, they will need to be reshaped by using a "half round" jewelers file. The bad part is, if you are allready at this point, it means that your trem is made of a softer metal than a genuine Floyd, and that after tim this problem will arise again. The only permanent solution would be to shell out a few bucks for the real deal, or another high quality licensed floyd.

As far as the buzzing goes, a slack string could be the problem, but I would also check the releif in your neck after tuning down. See, after you tune down, the foward pulling tension on your neck is decreased, and therefore your neck might not have the proper relieif it needs in order for the strings to clear the frets.

Good luck, hope that helps.
# 8
bigbuda
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bigbuda
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10/21/2005 4:36 am
I have a Jackson with a Floyd Rose on it and it's a b**ch to drop tune it. I ordered a Tremsetter by Hipshot, it says it eliminates this problem. Got it for 30 bucks off EBAY but I haven't recieved it yet. On a sidenote, when you detune your E string use your fine tuning knob on the trem. You'll have to screw it most of the way in when you originally tune your guitar to a standard tuning then when you are ready to detune you just back that fine tuning knob out and whalla, drop d. That way you don't have to mess around with the nut. I'll let you know how the tremsetter works when I get it in da mail and put it in. Also, there is a thing called the Tremconverter, you can get it at Stew Mac. It allows you to lock the trem in place with the turn of a little knob. That would allow you to detune to whatever you like. It's about twice as much as the Tremsetter.
I am a constant evolving music machine. Oh Man, I just forgot what I was playing. Oh well, on to the next song. :rolleyes:
# 9
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/21/2005 10:28 am
excellent, thanks lads. can i just confirm that the fulcrum points are where it joins the two pegs?

the unit itself is stamped with 'floyd rose' along the side but its definately not one of the expensive models. i might have to see what santa brings me :D
# 10
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/21/2005 10:18 pm
Originally Posted by: pogoheadexcellent, thanks lads. can i just confirm that the fulcrum points are where it joins the two pegs?

the unit itself is stamped with 'floyd rose' along the side but its definately not one of the expensive models. i might have to see what santa brings me :D



That is correct. It might be a Floyd Rose II or the Floyd Rose Pro.
# 11
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/21/2005 10:24 pm
Originally Posted by: bigbudaI have a Jackson with a Floyd Rose on it and it's a b**ch to drop tune it. I ordered a Tremsetter by Hipshot, it says it eliminates this problem. Got it for 30 bucks off EBAY but I haven't recieved it yet. On a sidenote, when you detune your E string use your fine tuning knob on the trem. You'll have to screw it most of the way in when you originally tune your guitar to a standard tuning then when you are ready to detune you just back that fine tuning knob out and whalla, drop d. That way you don't have to mess around with the nut. I'll let you know how the tremsetter works when I get it in da mail and put it in. Also, there is a thing called the Tremconverter, you can get it at Stew Mac. It allows you to lock the trem in place with the turn of a little knob. That would allow you to detune to whatever you like. It's about twice as much as the Tremsetter.


You would have this problem with ANY floating trem. When you drop the E to D, you are reducing string tension, therefore the springs will exude more force than intended, 'causing the other strings to go sharp. Major pain in the ass. The tremsetter will help, but it isn't perfect either. The trem converter will work, but also has drawbacks in that when it is engaged, you can't use the trem. Instead of using your fine tuner to drop the tuning, why not get the EVH D-Tuna? super quick tuning change...you can use it in the middle of a song if you like, it is so fast. Really the only way to completely fix this problem is to have your trem flush with the body of your guitar, that way it can't pull back sending the other strings sharp when you de-tune. Of course, if pulling up on your wiggle stick is just as important as pushing down on it, and you want to use the bar when in drop D, then the tremsetter is the way to go.

Good Luck
# 12
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/22/2005 5:17 pm
the d-tuna looks good but surely if you pressed the button to hold or release the string, the rest will just go out of tune like they normally do when you twiddle the screw :confused:
# 13
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/23/2005 6:49 pm
Originally Posted by: pogoheadthe d-tuna looks good but surely if you pressed the button to hold or release the string, the rest will just go out of tune like they normally do when you twiddle the screw :confused:



That is correct...read the rest of my previous post :cool:

Also, I saw someone mention to tighten the lock nut screws as tight as you can.....DON'T do this. Over tightening the lock nut can leed to problems such as stripped screws, and you can cause groove to be worn in the bottoms of the clamp peices, which would allow for string movement through the nut therefore defeating the purpose of the lock nut. Just make sure it is "snug", and do not overtighten.
# 14
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/23/2005 8:03 pm
I've followed your instructions. The points were slightly worn so I tidied them up a bit and tightened the truss rod slightly (it was quite loose). This seems to have worked (I've just tuned it and despite needing to reset the intonation everything seems in tune :D ) yet for some reason, if I depress the bar far enough, the right side of the bridge seems to slip off the post by a few millimetres, then returns (still in tune may I add) to its original position. Is this supposed to happen or have I done something really bad? :confused:
# 15
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/23/2005 8:33 pm
Originally Posted by: pogoheadI've followed your instructions. The points were slightly worn so I tidied them up a bit and tightened the truss rod slightly (it was quite loose). This seems to have worked (I've just tuned it and despite needing to reset the intonation everything seems in tune :D ) yet for some reason, if I depress the bar far enough, the right side of the bridge seems to slip off the post by a few millimetres, then returns (still in tune may I add) to its original position. Is this supposed to happen or have I done something really bad? :confused:


That is not a good thing, and could lead to more problems. Are your posts at the same height? Check to see if the wood has been compressed in the front of the treble side pivot post. It sounds like the post aren't aligned properly. If the wood has been compressed, you can fix it by putting in a hardwood dowel, and redrilling the hole, but that is a procedure best left to someone that has experience. Also, are your pivot posts screws that go sraight into the wood, or are they inserts that go into metal, as it is more common for the compresion effect to occur with screws. However if your guitar is made of a soft material like basswood, it's possible for the same thing to occur even if the posts are inserts rather than screws.

Did you trim the fulcrum points? If you did, and one side is trimmed more than the other, it could also lead to the problem you describe. I doubt this however as any triming should have been minute. You may also be able to solve the problem by simply replacing the pivot posts.

Let me know.
# 16
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/24/2005 10:57 am
I'm just about to adjust one of the posts actually. Its lower than the other one (you can spot it a mile of if you look from the back) so I'll try that and see what happens, but in response, they're screws that go into metal nuts, not into the wood.

I'll keep you posted :o
# 17
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/24/2005 11:23 am
Right, I've tried moving up the right post. Its reduced the problem but not completely. It still happens if I dip the bar far enough but I've checked the post height and that remains still.

Does this mean theres going to be some more filing? :(
# 18
pogohead
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pogohead
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10/24/2005 2:10 pm
It gets better. I've tuned up, set the intonation etc. and though I said it'd helped, I'm actually getting the same original problem, only it won't tune at all!

HELP! :(
# 19
3fingeredblues
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3fingeredblues
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10/24/2005 7:51 pm
Ok man, I think it's time you break down and take it to your local tech....this is getting to involved, and without the guitar in hand it is getting harder and harder to diagnose the problem. You'd probably be looking at less than $50.00 to have a tech look at it....worst case scenario would be a replacement. Sorry I couldn't help you more on this, but like I said, this is getting too involved and I don't want for you to mess up anything and cause a bigger problem.

Good luck.
# 20

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